Forum Discussion
100 Replies
- Falling into both 'Absolutism' and 'one size fits all'...again
Just because I've had frame rail fatigue fractures (both the WWII Jeep and K5)
does it mean everyone will...
Just because I'm interested in the stiffness of any truck frame, does it
mean everyone does...
Opposite is if no one has ever experienced frame fatigue fractures...does it
mean everyone will NOT
Opposite is that if one is not interested in the stiffness of a truck
frame, does it mean everyone does NOT
We solved these types of 'discussions' back in the 50's when I was a
kid...by wrestling and getting one to say uncle...some times it took
a knuckle rub on the noodle to get'm to say 'Uncle'... :B - I want these truck manufacturers to do the truck upside down in the lake frame test like GMC did.
Of course this is not an actual test but someone who is carelessly trying to extract a stuck truck.
All other tests are just marketing... Show me what it takes to break it.
Thanks!
Jeremiah transamz9 wrote:
RedRocket204 wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
I think what NC is trying to say is that the video shows the frame is weaker period. Would you have rather had the video of them loading the trucks with weight sitting on flat ground until one of them folded? You would have just said that you won't put that much weight in your truck.
Based on "testing" that 99% of the population will never see. If you find unrealistic "testing" appropriate for you, so be it.
Have you never pulled into a store or parking lot or driveway that was fairly steep getting into. Same thing is going on in the video. IDK about where you live but we have a lot of these places here. I have seen a lot of these places where I have traveled also so I would say that your 99% is a lot less.;)
I'm not going to say what you are telling me does not exist...as I haven't lived your life ;)
But never have I experienced anything even remotely similar to what was in that video. There is no way an average car could even make it over that "test"...let alone low profile cars.
BTW, I live in the Rocky Mountains now...where you are either ascending or descending so yes, lots of variation in terrain here.RedRocket204 wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
I think what NC is trying to say is that the video shows the frame is weaker period. Would you have rather had the video of them loading the trucks with weight sitting on flat ground until one of them folded? You would have just said that you won't put that much weight in your truck.
Based on "testing" that 99% of the population will never see. If you find unrealistic "testing" appropriate for you, so be it.
Have you never pulled into a store or parking lot or driveway that was fairly steep getting into. Same thing is going on in the video. IDK about where you live but we have a lot of these places here. I have seen a lot of these places where I have traveled also so I would say that your 99% is a lot less.;)- A good friend of mine is a farmer with the last model year 5.9 Dodge (2007?) he has had many front end suspension and hub issues which I contribute to his use of the truck in the fields. His experiences did make me hesitate buying a Ram, but I have seen the improvements since his generation truck and my 5500 truck is even beefier with a 5-link front suspension and heavier axle. My 2005 Ford never had issues in the front end but was never in such harsh environments an my friends truck, so I don't know how it would fair if he had owned it.
My observation is that all the trucks are getting better, but more complex. It is getting harder to do your own service and repairs and the cost to have these done has greatly increased. I mostly blame the EPA for the complexities and problems in the current engines, but the alternative is the smog we have seen in places like China. I still have eight carbureted engines at home that I maintain and repair, but I have given in to people more qualified than me to work on my turbo diesels (beyond basic mechanics).
BTW: If you think a Cummins owner gets pounced on for posting the positives of his truck, just take a look at what happened to the latest 6.0 PSD owner thread. It seems like no one can be happy for an owner of a competing truck. I hope my enthusiasm for what I own does not turn this way. RedRocket204 wrote:
spoon059 wrote:
NC Hauler wrote:
You're talking about beefing up a truck to take "off road":S, as in REALLY OFF ROAD..Had to dig for that one, huh?
...
It appears the Ford frame is weaker than the Ram frame, ie, not able to hold it's weight up without causing issues in trying to open tailgate, etc..So it makes me think that one picture, (video), is worth a thousand words as the old saying goes.
...
My truck is OEM, not planning on 4 wheeling "off road"..not planning on taking chances with my warranty.
I have no dog in this fight except the desire for truth to overcome hyperbole and brand loyalty on this forum...
NC Hauler, you mock the one guy because he is talking about frame reinforcement for off-roading in the same exact post where you mock Ford for having a tailgate that won't open when it is seriously flexed as if it was going off-roading.
You then state that you have no intention of taking your truck off-roading, probably because it is meant to haul your RV, therefore you have no need for this reinforcement kit.
What about the Ford driver who is much like you... he has a dually to haul around a 15K lbs+ 5th wheel and will never take either further off-road that a gravel driveway in the RV park?
Just like the reinforcement kit is ridiculous to you, this marketing hype is ridiculous to him.
I've never really been "off roading" before in my life. I have a 4wd truck to handle winter snow and wet grass in campgrounds. This marketing ploy is nothing more than that... I will NEVER intentionally have my truck perched like that. If I somehow ever find it like that, I will move it before I try to open my tailgate.
X2
That is just one of the things funny about this Tow Vehicle forum (funny = ridiculous, not haha), the one-way street arguements that pop up a lot. At times, sounds like a bunch of politicians!
Nothing political about it all....Don't know where that one came from...but it appears when some don't agree with others, they're (funny=ridiculous)...Glad we have so many experts in here to square us away....
Chevy, #1 or Ford #1....no matter how you look at it..Ram is 3rd...funny though when a Ram thread pops up and owners finally get to beat on their chest, which is rare, in comes quite a few others that don't even want the # 3 to feel all "warm and fuzzy" about themselves...This coming from a guy, (me), that owned nothing but Chevy trucks from 1975 through mid 2010....So haven't been a "Ram fan boy" for very long...but see what happens now when Ram owners finally get a chance to boast on their trucks...I didn't rag on Ram or Ford when I owned a Chevy, (last 3 were D/A's), and didn't do it when I owned a Ram until I see how it is when #3 starts getting better...
your right...definitely a one way street argument....woe be to the lowly Ram owner when they want to boast on their truck....not something you want to do on rv.net without getting pounced on...spoon059 wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
I think what NC is trying to say is that the video shows the frame is weaker period. Would you have rather had the video of them loading the trucks with weight sitting on flat ground until one of them folded? You would have just said that you won't put that much weight in your truck.
Yes, that is EXACTLY what I would like to see. Any yes, you are correct, I would never load my truck to the point of failure. The amount of weight it would take is well above what the vehicle is rated for. I would NEVER advocate loading your vehicle past the point it is rated to carry, certainly not thousands of pounds beyond that rating.
Its obvious that the Ram is a great truck. Look at my posts in the past, if I was to buy a new truck right now it would be the Ram 2500 or 3500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I really like what I see of the Ram, more so than the Ford. I can make that decision based upon REALITY though, not some ridiculous test that shows something that I would never encounter in the real world.
I prefer to make my decisions based upon fact, not some marketing scheme. I believe that the Ram has a much stronger frame. I believe that the Ram frame is much less susceptible to twisting. I don't believe that the Ford frame is unsafe or unable to support the weights that Ford has rated it to carry.
Don't recollect ever saying the Ford frame was unsafe:S ALL truck manufacturers have marketing schemes...believe it was a Toyota that pulled the Shuttle across a bridge...All of the Big Three have "marketing schemes"...tell me one who doesn't that we've discussed on this thread....At some point, we have to make up our own minds and kick out the tripe that we see from all 3 of them...but I gave facts on the the frame, front and rear suspension of the Ram as well as GVWR, GCWR and RAWR...fact's, not something made up...and I guess some of these videos by Ford, By GM/Chevy and by Ram are fictitious, but figure some have to be based on some kind of facts or they'd be slammed big time by Consumers Advocates out there somewhere..spoon059 wrote:
NC Hauler wrote:
You're talking about beefing up a truck to take "off road":S, as in REALLY OFF ROAD..Had to dig for that one, huh?
...
It appears the Ford frame is weaker than the Ram frame, ie, not able to hold it's weight up without causing issues in trying to open tailgate, etc..So it makes me think that one picture, (video), is worth a thousand words as the old saying goes.
...
My truck is OEM, not planning on 4 wheeling "off road"..not planning on taking chances with my warranty.
I have no dog in this fight except the desire for truth to overcome hyperbole and brand loyalty on this forum...
NC Hauler, you mock the one guy because he is talking about frame reinforcement for off-roading in the same exact post where you mock Ford for having a tailgate that won't open when it is seriously flexed as if it was going off-roading.
You then state that you have no intention of taking your truck off-roading, probably because it is meant to haul your RV, therefore you have no need for this reinforcement kit.
What about the Ford driver who is much like you... he has a dually to haul around a 15K lbs+ 5th wheel and will never take either further off-road that a gravel driveway in the RV park?
Just like the reinforcement kit is ridiculous to you, this marketing hype is ridiculous to him.
I've never really been "off roading" before in my life. I have a 4wd truck to handle winter snow and wet grass in campgrounds. This marketing ploy is nothing more than that... I will NEVER intentionally have my truck perched like that. If I somehow ever find it like that, I will move it before I try to open my tailgate.
I apologize if I offended you or anyone else in here, just seemed to me that poster we're talking about went out of his way to state that frame can't be too much or you wouldn't HAVE to have a reinforcement bracket or whatever for the steering box...THAT'S the way "I" took it...wasn't mocking anyone and you're right, I used the video as an example of how stout the Ram frame was...but also stated I can't see how anyone would get in that position with their truck..so no, I wasn't mocking..just stating reasons why I felt the frame of a Ram was pretty doggone stout..so to you, again, if I offended you, I apologize.
....I have done some fairly serious off roading years ago with Jeep CJ's and a 72 Chevy pick up that I had jacked up pretty high and a 1st. gear "bulldog" gear that would pull the truck up the side of a mountain or across a creek, but haven't done any of that for years.
I do tow my 5er into my property in WV as well as a couple of campgrounds in NC that can be wet, possibly muddy , bumpy as well as gravel roads, but have no issues doing that. heck even towed my 5er one time from Sevierville TN to Asheville in about 6" or more of snow...didn't intend to do that, just happened:...no problems, just took my time.transamz9 wrote:
I think what NC is trying to say is that the video shows the frame is weaker period. Would you have rather had the video of them loading the trucks with weight sitting on flat ground until one of them folded? You would have just said that you won't put that much weight in your truck.
Yes, that is EXACTLY what I would like to see. Any yes, you are correct, I would never load my truck to the point of failure. The amount of weight it would take is well above what the vehicle is rated for. I would NEVER advocate loading your vehicle past the point it is rated to carry, certainly not thousands of pounds beyond that rating.
Its obvious that the Ram is a great truck. Look at my posts in the past, if I was to buy a new truck right now it would be the Ram 2500 or 3500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I really like what I see of the Ram, more so than the Ford. I can make that decision based upon REALITY though, not some ridiculous test that shows something that I would never encounter in the real world.
I prefer to make my decisions based upon fact, not some marketing scheme. I believe that the Ram has a much stronger frame. I believe that the Ram frame is much less susceptible to twisting. I don't believe that the Ford frame is unsafe or unable to support the weights that Ford has rated it to carry.transamz9 wrote:
I think what NC is trying to say is that the video shows the frame is weaker period. Would you have rather had the video of them loading the trucks with weight sitting on flat ground until one of them folded? You would have just said that you won't put that much weight in your truck.
I personally would have liked to have seen them do the twist test with the tailgate down. I would almost bet the Ford would not have gotten the back wheel off the ground and probably would have buckled a bed panel. I believe the tailgate was acting as a brace.
As far as the Brace for the ram steering. The 13 and up have it already made into the truck from the factory. The aftermarket world is offering it because they know there are people that will buy it just because it's made.
Well you know what the football analyst's have to say " Come on man ! " :S
What a load of******!!
