So help me 'cipher this....Word on the rvnet street is that half tons are generally good for 3800-4800lbs RAWR depending on the setup (it's on the mighty door stickers anyway) and 3/4 tons are generally good for 6000-6500lbs rawr (from the super duper door sticker).So was doin a little work last night to the Freedom Wagon. She's a 1986 GMC Sierra Classic K20 for those of you who arent' in the know.With the mighty semi floating 14 bolt rear axle.So I sees this little sticker...the infamous door sticker! (Not sure I've ever actually looked at one and studied it before, but with the littany of literature on the rvnet regarding the all powerful door sticker, I took a closer look!)Well here it is. (Not the actual, my truck is blue, but it reads the very same as this image I pulled off the inner-webs.)So's I get to thinkin, hmmm 6000lbs RAWR, bout the same as the rvnet weight cops say 3/4 tons are good for...cool!But wait....there's more. This aint no strong as an Ox full floating heavy duty rear axle with a ring gear somewhere between 10.5" and 12" with big ole beefy double supported axle shafts.Nooo, this is a puny little 9.5" ring gear, single row, semi floater axle....you know like today's half tons......the weak ones that are only supposed to be used for groceries, according to the weight cops.So's I start researchin. 14bolt semi floater. 33 spline shafts, 1.37" diameter.Hmm, look up the specs for my 2016 SilverAdo 1500 parked next to it....you know with the "weak" grocery getter 3800lb RAWR axle. Whadaya know that 1/2 ton axle is 33 spline and 1.41" diameter!Sooo, here's the question.Did steel get weaker in the last 30 years?Did mfgs get more regulated in the last 30 years?ORDid men become pansies in the last 30 years?'Cause near as I can tell, my old axle is somehow rated for 3tons in a "8600gvw Camper Special" but essentially the same axle is rated 37% LESS in my "new" truck.

Here's a pic of the subject at hand.Edit: Yes I know the rims are too narrow for the tires. Not my doing...It's gonna get some 35-12.50-20s on 20x11 steelies once she's all painted up and pretty.

Fishing is slow. Must need different bait!

No no no! Logic make no sense. 3/4 ton good, half ton bad. 1 ton best!In all seriousness, this is what I have been saying for a long time. Today's half ton axles are much stronger than the 3/4 axles of decades ago that people had no hesitation loading up with 3k lbs. Not only that, but the breaking system is much better too. The main weak point of todays half tons versus 3/4 tons back then is the suspension which can be rectified with aftermarket add-ons even though the weight police will still get triggered over it. Improve the rear suspension of a half to where I am not dramatically nose high in the front making it unsafe to drive, and I would not hesitate to put the same loads people put in 3/4 back then.People are too caught up on the number on the door. Regardless of whether they are much stronger than yesterday's 3/4 tons, it can only haul groceries if it has a 1 on the door to many of the old timers because they are applying decades old logic to today's trucks.

ShinerBock wrote:No no no! Logic make no sense. 3/4 ton good, half ton bad. 1 ton best!In all seriousness, this is what I have been saying for a long time. Today's half ton axles are much stronger than the 3/4 axles of decades ago that people had no hesitation loading up with 3k lbs. Not only that, but the breaking system is much better too. The main weak point of todays half tons versus 3/4 tons back then is the suspension which can be rectified with aftermarket add-ons even though the weight police will still get triggered over it. Improve the rear suspension of a half to where I am not dramatically nose high in the front making it unsafe to drive, and I would not hesitate to put the same loads people put in 3/4 back then.People are too caught up on the number on the door. Regardless of whether they are much stronger than yesterday's 3/4 tons, it can only haul groceries if it has a 1 on the door to many of the old timers because they are applying decades old logic to today's trucks.I think you forgot to talk about a tire upgrade!

Pickups of all sizes are available in lots of configurations and are continually being upgraded. My 2016 F150 is better at towing than my 1991 F250 was and as far as I could find out it had the most power and the highest tow rating available that year. 10K on the bumper and 12.5k on a 5th wheel. It also had drum brakes on the rear axle.

RAWR Question? | Good Sam Community

36 Replies

ShinerBock
Explorer
Oct 20, 2020
mkirsch wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
They do not keep it a secret, you just have to know where to look.

No, you have to have privileged access to privileged information. You can look for that information until you die of old age and you'd never find it unless someone such as yourself provides a link to it, which is likely a violation of some fine print agreement which you signed.

None of this comes up in a google search, which is all a mere mortal such as myself who does not own 500+ trucks, has access to.

All of the stuff I linked was found with Google and is public info. I will grant you that it is a little hard to find depending on your Google skills. You have to type specific words and put "" around words that you want to be exact along with time limits to only show articles or links posted within that time frame. It is all in the way that you word it and what words are used.
mkirsch
Nomad II
Oct 20, 2020
ShinerBock wrote:
They do not keep it a secret, you just have to know where to look.

No, you have to have privileged access to privileged information. You can look for that information until you die of old age and you'd never find it unless someone such as yourself provides a link to it, which is likely a violation of some fine print agreement which you signed.

None of this comes up in a google search, which is all a mere mortal such as myself who does not own 500+ trucks, has access to.
Me_Again
Explorer III
Oct 16, 2020
Grit dog wrote:
Me Again wrote:

And it had the neat camper tie downs built into the bed of the truck. I should look and see if I can find a picture of the seat. I had a friend with an upholstery shop that rebuild the seat and did a nice cloth seat.

I want to see the seat pic!
Still looking for ideas for the blue truck. Have a good upholstery guy and not doing the 80s ugly assss crushed velvet.
Looking 70s cloth / vinyl patterns or saw a 1981 custom Deluxe with a 1 year only pattern that is the shizz.

I looked this morning for a while, but did not find a picture. Sorry.
Grit_dog
Navigator II
Oct 16, 2020
Me Again wrote:

And it had the neat camper tie downs built into the bed of the truck. I should look and see if I can find a picture of the seat. I had a friend with an upholstery shop that rebuild the seat and did a nice cloth seat.

I want to see the seat pic!
Still looking for ideas for the blue truck. Have a good upholstery guy and not doing the 80s ugly assss crushed velvet.
Looking 70s cloth / vinyl patterns or saw a 1981 custom Deluxe with a 1 year only pattern that is the shizz.
ShinerBock
Explorer
Oct 16, 2020
mkirsch wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
mkirsch wrote:
If we're not to believe the numbers on the door sticker, what DO we believe?

Is there a certain measurement that we can take between the bumper and the ground that tells us the truck is at risk of a component failure?

Or, do we just load whatever, and go?

I guess you have to wing it just like all those people had to do before they started putting those numbers on the door.

Having worked in the medium/heavy duty truck industry all my life, I have come to realize that certain vehicles ratings are limited by regulation, and others are limited by actual component limits. You have to do a little homework to which is limiting your. This should be hard to do since most people have more knowledge in their phone and can quickly access knowledge that would take people just a few decades ago hours, days, weeks or even a lifetime to find out. Sometimes, you would never be able to find out the kind of info you can know within seconds today.

I know you made a typo when you said "This should be hard to do" but you hit upon the truth with that statement. It *IS* hard to do.

The only results of any "research" I try to do on this leads me back to forums like this, where it's the same ages-old argument between the "door sticker" and the "I put way more than that on my truck and nobody died" crowds.

I have found NO numbers, such as the axle is rated for X,XXXlbs, the springs are rated for Y,YYYlbs, and the frame is rated for Z,ZZZlbs. The manufacturers understandably keep this information under lock and key so we as the consumers can't sue them if we hurt or kill ourselves or someone else when going by those numbers instead of the door sticker. Just conjecture from old men who claim to know what they're doing.

They do not keep it a secret, you just have to know where to look. I know where to look since I have been in the industry for all these years. They do not readily give this type of info to the everyday buyer, but they do give it to the fleets. My company has a 500+ fleet and we are approached by every truck make on a regular bases to buy their products.

Here is the fleet link for GM products. Change the type of vehcile in the upper right corner.

GM Fleet

Ram used to have the bodybuilder site below, but it has moved for newer vehicles.

Ram Bodybuilder

Ford is a little trickier. I can easily find the info since we have 9 Ford dealerships and I have a Ford dealer login, but I cannot share that info with a link since you don't have a dealer password and due to other non-disclosure agreements. Below is an example that is already published, but it is for an F-650/750. I cannot find a published one for an F150 or Super Duty. As you can see it is very detailed.

F-650/750 Technical Specifications

The gross axle weight rating, the axle itself without suspension or tires put on my the vehicle manufacturer, information comes from the manufacturer that makes these axle for each manufacturer. Most Ford's are Dana and most GM's and Ram's are AAM. This GAWR changes once the vehicle manufacturers puts on brakes, tires and suspension to accommodate for the weakest link in the system. Generally, the axle itself is rated to handle thousands of pounds more than the axle system since it is generally the tires or suspension that is the weak link.

For example, the AAM 11.5 rear axle in my truck has a rating of 10,000 lbs by AAM. However, it has a 6,500 lb axle system rating in my 2500 due to suspension being the week link and a 7,000 lb rating in the 3500 version of my truck due to it having a slightly heavier duty suspension. Tire, brakes, and frame on both trucks are the same.
Me_Again
Explorer III
Oct 16, 2020
Grit dog wrote:
MeAgain, awesome pics!
Your truck was a “real” 3/4ton with a full floater 14 bolt.
Amazing what “was” done in the last and is now looked down upon.....albeit mostly by keyboard warrior internet experts.
Was the point of my thread....cheers guys!

And it had the neat camper tie downs built into the bed of the truck. I should look and see if I can find a picture of the seat. I had a friend with an upholstery shop that rebuild the seat and did a nice cloth seat.
mkirsch
Nomad II
Oct 16, 2020
ShinerBock wrote:
mkirsch wrote:
If we're not to believe the numbers on the door sticker, what DO we believe?

Is there a certain measurement that we can take between the bumper and the ground that tells us the truck is at risk of a component failure?

Or, do we just load whatever, and go?

I guess you have to wing it just like all those people had to do before they started putting those numbers on the door.

Having worked in the medium/heavy duty truck industry all my life, I have come to realize that certain vehicles ratings are limited by regulation, and others are limited by actual component limits. You have to do a little homework to which is limiting your. This should be hard to do since most people have more knowledge in their phone and can quickly access knowledge that would take people just a few decades ago hours, days, weeks or even a lifetime to find out. Sometimes, you would never be able to find out the kind of info you can know within seconds today.

I know you made a typo when you said "This should be hard to do" but you hit upon the truth with that statement. It *IS* hard to do.

The only results of any "research" I try to do on this leads me back to forums like this, where it's the same ages-old argument between the "door sticker" and the "I put way more than that on my truck and nobody died" crowds.

I have found NO numbers, such as the axle is rated for X,XXXlbs, the springs are rated for Y,YYYlbs, and the frame is rated for Z,ZZZlbs. The manufacturers understandably keep this information under lock and key so we as the consumers can't sue them if we hurt or kill ourselves or someone else when going by those numbers instead of the door sticker. Just conjecture from old men who claim to know what they're doing.
Grit_dog
Navigator II
Oct 16, 2020
MeAgain, awesome pics!
Your truck was a “real” 3/4ton with a full floater 14 bolt.
Amazing what “was” done in the last and is now looked down upon.....albeit mostly by keyboard warrior internet experts.
Was the point of my thread....cheers guys!
Grit_dog
Navigator II
Oct 16, 2020
^Wish there was a “like” button RJ!!!
rjstractor
Nomad
Oct 16, 2020
Grit Dog wrote:
Sooo, here's the question.
Did steel get weaker in the last 30 years?
Did mfgs get more regulated in the last 30 years?
OR
Did men become pansies in the last 30 years?

In a rare attempt of mine to actually keep a thread on its original topic, here's an answer your question....

No, yes, and yes.