Second Gen 3.5 EcoBoost and 10 Speed Transmission

transamz9 wrote:
I think it's funny they felt the need to completely redesign a motor that is still fairly young and new and suppose to be indestructible. I like the transmission though. I would love to see a ten speed in the HD line ups with a 2 speed rear axle option.

The gen 1 Ecoboost used the same block as the Duratec version which has literally been around for decades. The main difference were the bore, the heads to allow for direct injection, and the exhaust.

The reasoning behind this is that Ford took a big gamble in putting a turbocharged V6 in a role as 5.7L and 6.2L engines, so from a manufacturing standpoint it is wise to use already existing recourses so your losses will not be as bad just in case it doesn't work out. Manufacturers do this all the time just like how Ram just used a diesel originally designed to go in a Cadillac sedan, and slapped it in a truck. It was a gamble if it would be profitable, so why not use existing recourses just in case it doesn't work. Usually in manufacturing, if the gamble pays off then more money is alloted to make improvements. i
If it didn't do so well, but still profitable then the improvements would not come until the project pays for itself. Although often in manufacturing if a gamble didn't do so well then it would be scrapped as soon as it pays for itself rather than upgraded.

Seeing that the 3.5L Ecoboost is so popular, it really should be no surprise that they changed the block so soon into it's own design instead of just using the old Duratec block. Then the addition of port injection probably forced them to change the heads along with other improvements for the high output version putting out 450 hp and 600 hp.

Ford should take the 3.5 EB and put in the Super Duty line, but market it as a Super Duty light duty or Super Duty recreational vehicle geared towards the weekend warrior types. That would give the regular SD users the motors they need for those regular applications and give the EB to those lighter duty uses.

You're welcome Ford. Please mail your check directly to me for this marketing idea!

transamz9 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I think it's funny they felt the need to completely redesign a motor that is still fairly young and new and suppose to be indestructible. I like the transmission though. I would love to see a ten speed in the HD line ups with a 2 speed rear axle option.

Take a truck like my 2013 Ram. It would be the cat's meow if I could have 3.42:1 for my everyday ventures and then when I hook to my rig push a button and have 4.11:1.

Not sure why you consider making improvements on an engine that has been vehicles for over decade is funny. I would think it would be more funny or odd for a manufacturer in this technology driven age to wait for the competition to pass them and react.

The 3.5 Ecoboost has been in the F150 towing heavy loads (for a 1/2 ton series truck) for decades? Huh, new one for me. I thought it was an all new engine and technology for the F150.

The engine has been around since 2007/2008 in test vehicles and formally introduced around 2009. Now if you want to take issue on the history in the F150 that is your prerogative. The comment seemed more like a passive aggressive dig. If not I apologize. From the description it is clear this is a move to give Ford options to do other things with the platform in the future and not just run the current design into the ground as technology changes.

No, it was not a dig. I just remember when it was first introduced in the F150 it was put out like it was going to be the new plow of our era. Tow like a HD truck diesel, run like a Corvette , get the fuel mileage of a Prius and last like a tank. Now all of a sudden they are completely redesigning it. It's like they put it on the market tuned to it's max right of the bat. It just seems they would had built the first version to have been expandable instead of it being such a short life span in the trucks.

You're using exaggerations for effect, but the reality from my perspective is that the 3.5 has been a very impressive engine. Not quite a diesel, but closest you'll get in a gasser for a lot less money. Not quite a vette, but quick for a truck. I'm happy with 22mpg highway with a 365hp 420ftlb engine (over almost the whole rpm range) and a 6k pound truck. Not yet determined if they are going to last like a tank, but look on auto-trader....you'll find lots of them at 200k miles.

I think it's run its design course and is a perfect philosophy for ford to continue to develop. Obviously some pretty smart automotive engineers believe so too.

The story I've heard is that Ford spearheaded the 10spd RWD tranny and GM spearheads the 9spd FWD tranny. And that both will program and modify them to suit their specific vehicles.

Lessmore wrote:
A number of years ago, I remember reading that GM and Ford were jointly working on transmissions, both for front wheel drive car and rear wheel drive, light truck applications. I believe the current 6 speed automatic in Ford/GM FWD cars maybe one result.

I also recall that a 10 speed automatic in GM/Ford trucks was also in the plans. Sounds like maybe it's reached fruition.

Joint R+D for expensive components, I think will be something we see more of in vehicle design.

Would be interesting to get confirmation if these transmissions are the result of joint design from Ford/GM.

It is no secret that the 10 speed mentioned in the video was a joint development by GM and Ford. But aside from the fact it is a 10 speed they are tight lipped on what the shared technology is in respective to the Ford and GM versions.

A number of years ago, I remember reading that GM and Ford were jointly working on transmissions, both for front wheel drive car and rear wheel drive, light truck applications. I believe the current 6 speed automatic in Ford/GM FWD cars maybe one result.

I also recall that a 10 speed automatic in GM/Ford trucks was also in the plans. Sounds like maybe it's reached fruition.

Joint R+D for expensive components, I think will be something we see more of in vehicle design.

Would be interesting to get confirmation if these transmissions are the result of joint design from Ford/GM.

Are they ever going to put it in the SuperDuty?

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I think it's funny they felt the need to completely redesign a motor that is still fairly young and new and suppose to be indestructible. I like the transmission though. I would love to see a ten speed in the HD line ups with a 2 speed rear axle option.

Take a truck like my 2013 Ram. It would be the cat's meow if I could have 3.42:1 for my everyday ventures and then when I hook to my rig push a button and have 4.11:1.

Not sure why you consider making improvements on an engine that has been vehicles for over decade is funny. I would think it would be more funny or odd for a manufacturer in this technology driven age to wait for the competition to pass them and react.

The 3.5 Ecoboost has been in the F150 towing heavy loads (for a 1/2 ton series truck) for decades? Huh, new one for me. I thought it was an all new engine and technology for the F150.

The engine has been around since 2007/2008 in test vehicles and formally introduced around 2009. Now if you want to take issue on the history in the F150 that is your prerogative. The comment seemed more like a passive aggressive dig. If not I apologize. From the description it is clear this is a move to give Ford options to do other things with the platform in the future and not just run the current design into the ground as technology changes.

No, it was not a dig. I just remember when it was first introduced in the F150 it was put out like it was going to be the new plow of our era. Tow like a HD truck diesel, run like a Corvette , get the fuel mileage of a Prius and last like a tank. Now all of a sudden they are completely redesigning it. It's like they put it on the market tuned to it's max right of the bat. It just seems they would had built the first version to have been expandable instead of it being such a short life span in the trucks.

carringb wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I think it's funny they felt the need to completely redesign a motor that is still fairly young and new and suppose to be indestructible.

Redesign isn't exclusively for the F150. In other vehicles it will be be pushing 600 HP. In the Raptor, its expected to do 450 HP!

Again, not the same engine. The Raptor yes. The 6.0 in the GM twins is not the same engine that was in the cars that GM had like the Caddys and sport cars. They were the same displacement of 6.0 liters but were not the same engine.

The 6.4 in the Ram trucks is not the same as the 6.4 in the cars either.

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I think it's funny they felt the need to completely redesign a motor that is still fairly young and new and suppose to be indestructible. I like the transmission though. I would love to see a ten speed in the HD line ups with a 2 speed rear axle option.

Take a truck like my 2013 Ram. It would be the cat's meow if I could have 3.42:1 for my everyday ventures and then when I hook to my rig push a button and have 4.11:1.

Not sure why you consider making improvements on an engine that has been vehicles for over decade is funny. I would think it would be more funny or odd for a manufacturer in this technology driven age to wait for the competition to pass them and react.

The 3.5 Ecoboost has been in the F150 towing heavy loads (for a 1/2 ton series truck) for decades? Huh, new one for me. I thought it was an all new engine and technology for the F150.

:) Hi, I believe that he said for over a decade, which could mean eleven years. "for decades? Huh, new one for me." This engine started in the Taurus before the F-150.

It's not the same engine that was in the Taurus. Same displacement and has turbos yes but not the same.