"Shocking" discovery in my AF

jimh425 wrote:
For the AF, they just need more support of the holding tanks instead of telling customers they have a special way to fill their tanks. Otherwise, I wonder what happens to the Black/Grey if they are "over filled".

As posted, this has to do with pressuring the tank. If the filler is larger than the vent, bulging can happen.

If you are pressurizing your black tank, that is a serious medical condition that should be immediately be addressed and your vent is blocked.

jimh425 wrote:
AFAIK, comparing a TT to a TC wrt holding tanks, doesn't matter. TC's are the only rv with an unsupported floor when not in the bed.

For the AF, they just need more support of the holding tanks instead of telling customers they have a special way to fill their tanks. Otherwise, I wonder what happens to the Black/Grey if they are "over filled".

This issue really doesn't have anything to do with the support of the holding tank. What they are saying is that if you pressurize the tank using your water fill ( I suppose you could get up to 80+ psi depending on your water pressure) you will bulge the tank. If you subject any manufactures tanks to that kind of pressure you will probably get the same result.

The fault, if any, ls that the tank vent is too small to adequately release high pressure on the tank. I don't have a know how well others vent their tanks. Anybody want to try and report back? :)

805gregg wrote:
Lance has aluminum frame without welds

sorry ,:( they are welded, and they weld the aluminum after the Styrofoam is inserted in the frames! The only way IMHO to assemble aluminum is like airplanes and Airstreams construction ; overlap joints and solid rivets.


If RV companies used this, there would be no more problems

http://timbersilwood.com/

AFAIK, comparing a TT to a TC wrt holding tanks, doesn't matter. TC's are the only rv with an unsupported floor when not in the bed.

For the AF, they just need more support of the holding tanks instead of telling customers they have a special way to fill their tanks. Otherwise, I wonder what happens to the Black/Grey if they are "over filled".

In my 2013 new Komfort 29' TT I fill the tank slowly, just as my manual requires. Even so, there is no escaping air noise from the vent until about half way full and then there sounds a sort of "release" and sometimes a bit of water spurt. Thereafter you can hear the gurgling of the vent normally heard during fill, and the tank takes on gently about the other half's worth.

It seems apparent there is some sort of material causing a plugged condition. Probably an assembly "quality" issue. But after at least 20-25 fills it still does it. Every time I take my problem to the better of the two "dealer" Dutchmen repair shops they act like they aren't happy to see me. That probably comes from one of my original manufacturer warranty/satisfaction claims regarding misaligned and crooked cabinet door hardware. Another poor quality installation where holes were drilled cock-eyed. So I don't got to the dealer anymore. Their attitude wore me down.

RamTC wrote:
Joe417, no stir about quality or design flaws as mine would have crashed through many times already. I've seen a few similar pics over the years on the AF forums, but I believe they now have sold over 10,000 TCs. Just have to be careful filling and under stand why. It only takes 1x to cause the damage shown in your pics which may show itself years later, could have been from a previous owner too. Good luck with your repair. From my 2005 AF Owners Manual:

Well thats where the extra 20 gallons goes. Hmmm. Im going to check my manual again, I remember caution in filling to fast and a suggestion to attach a smaller gauge fill hose with a valve to restrict force and volume of water entry. Mine cost less than 10 dollars to put together. I dont remember Lance saying anything about swelling. I wonder if the 2 manufactores use the same type of tank. I know my FW tank looks to be rigid spun poly ,fairly thick. IIRC my friendmentioned when his tank fell through, that the tank expanded during filling. Guess AF was serious in the manual. But I also remember his AF had no metal , aluminum or otherwise supporting the tank. It was wood crossmembers and flimsy. He fixed it himself, and was able to reuse his tank.

Joe417, no stir about quality or design flaws as mine would have crashed through many times already. I've seen a few similar pics over the years on the AF forums, but I believe they now have sold over 10,000 TCs. Just have to be careful filling and under stand why. It only takes 1x to cause the damage shown in your pics which may show itself years later, could have been from a previous owner too. Good luck with your repair. From my 2005 AF Owners Manual:

I didn't mean to create a stir about AF quality. As someone noted, this is an 05 model and I,m the 3rd owner.

One of the bottom panels had been off before I removed it, so, I don't know who may have put the screw through the power wire. All that it says to me is that the individual who did it may have a problem, possibly could care less, mad at the boss that day, or the dealer my have hired a blind guy to get government incentives. Who knows.

Yes, the screw is directly through the wire. I measured the resistance today and the frame was connected directly to the hot wire. Fortunately, it had no other direct connection to metal in the camper. Probably would only have been an issue if a tank had leaked to give it a path to ground.

I don't think AF quality is a problem, although the 05 isn't quite at the same level as the 13 models I looked at this past year. I still like my AF. A used camper is a used camper and if your not rich you better be able to fix it yourself.

I do agree with several posts that the frames needed more than the single spot weld they had. They will have more before I put the bottom back on.

Talk about quality, the bottom cover is about 1/8" plywood with Rustoleum truck bed liner sprayed on. (got that from a call to AF) So this morning I went to a building material place and bought 2 sheets of 1/8" plywood and the Rustoleum. When pulling it out of the truck I had about 2' supported on the tail gate and both sheets broke under their own weight. Of course, a product of china.

So, my opinion is that you can't hold anyone responsible unless you know the complete history. I hold my lumber yard and china responsible for the plywood! Other than that, I don't have all the facts, so I will repair it better than it was originally, I just wish I could flip it upside down, the knees and back aren't what they use to be.

Jfet,

Good point and then the ground is very wet under the TC! Now holds ZERO gallons!

RamTC wrote:
I don't find the OPs discovery very "shocking", looks like expected damage caused by over filling the FW tank. Turning a 40 gallon FW tank into a 60 gallon tank "will actually tear apart the structure of the floor on your camper", that info, plus alot more including a full page diagram showing likely damage from "hydrolic force" is clearly explained in the Arctic Fox owners manual. Looks like an easy fix, I'd just add some additional bracing, and replace the non-structural bottom skin.

You fill the tanks till it spits out the intake. Thats what my Lance manual says. So exactly where does this extra 20 gallons fit? BTW my friends Artic Fox dropped its belly to due to inadequate bracing of the FW tank. AF cheats on what you dont see, thats what I learned from his AF.