Survey says... 1T for 5th wheel & 3/4T for BP Toyhauler

Txsurfer wrote:
OK so really unless you want a dually stick with a 3/4. Add some bags if you need and be done with.

Yes for the most part. When it comes to 3/4 built in the past three years or so they can easily handle up to the point where a DRW truck would probably be a better choice.

For me, that line is 3.5k lbs payload(with suspension mods) and 15k lbs towing on occasion which puts me well within my GAWR's, GCWR, and tow rating of my 2500. Anything above that or if I were towing that frequently then I would consider just stepping up to a DRW. But that is just me and everyone rows their boat differently.

Several topics in this thread

#1 State regulatory rules, taxes, etc

First, everyone drives on public roads the majority of the time

It costs the state money in many ways. First to acquire the land, pay the various consultants/contractors/etc to plan and build it

It costs the state money to maintain it, patrol it bot for safety and to enforce whatever laws are there. Don't like anyone of those laws...then do something about it...like talking to your legislator(s) and become active in the change/repeal/etc of them

The roads used the most...wear out the fastest. How does those roads wear out? Mainly from weight factored by speed.

The heavier your truck is (in terms of PSI on pavement)...the faster it wears out the road. Commercial is on the road full time...vs...RV'ers only a few weeks/months of the year. Full time RV'ers pail in numbers compared to commercial

The why of licensing is both to weed out (force training/education/etc...plus health for commercial) and to collect funds to pay for all of the above...factored by weight & likelihood of miles per year (full time commercial, etc)

#2 The OEM's has a contract to you, the buyer/owner of their products. That contract is in the form of written promise of warranty and specification for its intended use.

Sine I know of no OEM doing business selling vehicles for free...they are all in it for profit...AKA making money after paying for all of their expenses.

One of those expenses is warranty. Which is more than just parts and labor...hidden to too many is that it is also a marketing metric or tool

Now after saying all that...humans are humans...from the victims to the heartless & cruel who will screw anyone, everyone...even their mother....

OK so really unless you want a dually stick with a 3/4. Add some bags if you need and be done with.

otrfun wrote:
You choose to see the state laws pertaining to GVWR/GCWR as arbitrary, unenforceable, generally ineffective, and the manufacturers GVWR for warranty purposes only.

I choose to see them otherwise.

You can choose to see anything that you want... that doesn't change reality though. There are multiple quotes in this thread referencing LEGALITY of towing over your manufacturers stickered GVWR. The fact of the matter is that there is ZERO legal basis for the stickered GVWR.

Now, if you chose to stick to the numbers listed on that sticker, that is absolutely your right. I have a 3/4 ton truck and have never exceeded my 10K lbs GVWR when towing. That doesn't mean that it is inherently UNSAFE nor ILLEGAL if I chose to do so.

I am simply responding to those people that incorrectly state as fact that it is ILLEGAL to tow over the number on a sticker from the factory. That is patently false, regardless of your opinion.

If you want to argue that it is BETTER to tow with a 1 ton than a 3/4 ton, that is absolutely fine. That is a matter of opinion to which we are all entitled to have. But LEGAL is a fairly well defined standard...

What also makes it more confusing is that personal use verse business use verses RV use may all be different for the same vehicle in the same state.

spoon059 wrote:



By the way, just one more example to prove that they are arbitrary... I live in Maryland. Maryland allows me to register any vehicle for any weight that I want, I just have to pay a higher tax/registration fee for that higher weight. I can register a Ford Ranger for 12,000 lbs GVWR if I want to. If I put E rated tires and wheels with a load capacity of at least 3000 lbs on my Ranger, I can legally load that Ranger down to 16K lbs. I can then figure out a way to load a heavy 5th wheel on that Ranger and drive it through California on my regular non-commercial class A license which rates me to drive any non commercial vehicle and any non commercial trailer.

While incredibly stupid to do so, California couldn't do a darn thing about it. I'm under the federal bridge limits of 20K per axle, I'm under my registered weight of 12K lbs and I'm under my tire rate of 12K lbs. This is all hyperbole, mind you, because the Ranger likely wouldn't make it out of my driveway without falling apart, but my point is that it would be PERFECTLY LEGAL.

You can do the very same thing in Texas. If I pay the extra amount for a 10,001-14,000 GVWR registration then I can legally load my below 10k GVWR truck with that amount. The penalty for exceeding your registered GVWR here is to pay the GVWR you got caught with for the amount of time the vehicle was registered. So if an under 10k GVWR registered 5 year old truck got caught with a load that puts him in the above 10k to 14k GVWR registration class, then you would have to pay the difference in registration cost ($56) for every year that the vehicle was registered in Texas and have it registered in that GVWR from that point on.

Some people get a little confused in regards to what GVWR the law is talking about since factory GVWR and registered GVWR are used for different requirements. When it comes down to vehicles with a factory GVWR of under 26,000 lbs that don't need a CDL, the GVWR that matters in the eyes of the law is the GVWR you register your truck for, not the factory GVWR. Factory GVWR and registered GVWR are two different things. One is enforced by law(registered) and the other isn't(factory) when it pertains to vehicles below 26,000 lbs GVWR.

spoon059 wrote:
. . . Axle ratings and GVWR are simply a warranty number imposed by the manufacturer. There is no way for law enforcement to enforce those arbitrary numbers.

otrfun wrote:
TX and CA (and other states) use the GVWR and/or GCWR of various RV's (motorhomes, TV's and trailers) to determine whether a state issued Class A/B/C (non-DOT) license is necessary. It would seem, at least in some states, the DMV and law enforcement view GVWR/GCWR as a bit more than arbitrary and/or a "warranty number".

spoon059 wrote:
Now you understand exactly WHY manufacturers offer a 3/4 ton truck, as opposed to a 1 ton truck. They do it because of arbitrary numbers like California and Texas deciding that a truck OVER 10,000 lbs is commercial, whereas a truck at or below 10,000 lbs is not commercial. There is very little mechanical difference between the two vehicles (assuming SRW only)... but one is arbitrarily given a 10,000 max GVWR simply to comply with the weight designation of certain states.

You are proving my point. All these numbers just mean a different level of tax from each state. These states require a more expensive registration fee, or a more expensive license for trucks over being over 10,000 lbs. It doesn't make the one vehicle more or less capable than the other... it just allows the state to collect more money for allowing you the privilege to drive it.

By the way, just one more example to prove that they are arbitrary... I live in Maryland. Maryland allows me to register any vehicle for any weight that I want, I just have to pay a higher tax/registration fee for that higher weight. I can register a Ford Ranger for 12,000 lbs GVWR if I want to. If I put E rated tires and wheels with a load capacity of at least 3000 lbs on my Ranger, I can legally load that Ranger down to 16K lbs. I can then figure out a way to load a heavy 5th wheel on that Ranger and drive it through California on my regular non-commercial class A license which rates me to drive any non commercial vehicle and any non commercial trailer.

While incredibly stupid to do so, California couldn't do a darn thing about it. I'm under the federal bridge limits of 20K per axle, I'm under my registered weight of 12K lbs and I'm under my tire rate of 12K lbs. This is all hyperbole, mind you, because the Ranger likely wouldn't make it out of my driveway without falling apart, but my point is that it would be PERFECTLY LEGAL.

You choose to see the state laws pertaining to GVWR/GCWR as arbitrary, unenforceable, generally ineffective, and the manufacturers GVWR for warranty purposes only.

I choose to see them otherwise.

otrfun wrote:
TX and CA (and other states) use the GVWR and/or GCWR of various RV's (motorhomes, TV's and trailers) to determine whether a state issued Class A/B/C (non-DOT) license is necessary. It would seem, at least in some states, the DMV and law enforcement view GVWR/GCWR as a bit more than arbitrary and/or a "warranty number".

Now you understand exactly WHY manufacturers offer a 3/4 ton truck, as opposed to a 1 ton truck. They do it because of arbitrary numbers like California and Texas deciding that a truck OVER 10,000 lbs is commercial, whereas a truck at or below 10,000 lbs is not commercial. There is very little mechanical difference between the two vehicles (assuming SRW only)... but one is arbitrarily given a 10,000 max GVWR simply to comply with the weight designation of certain states.

You are proving my point. All these numbers just mean a different level of tax from each state. These states require a more expensive registration fee, or a more expensive license for trucks over being over 10,000 lbs. It doesn't make the one vehicle more or less capable than the other... it just allows the state to collect more money for allowing you the privilege to drive it.

By the way, just one more example to prove that they are arbitrary... I live in Maryland. Maryland allows me to register any vehicle for any weight that I want, I just have to pay a higher tax/registration fee for that higher weight. I can register a Ford Ranger for 12,000 lbs GVWR if I want to. If I put E rated tires and wheels with a load capacity of at least 3000 lbs on my Ranger, I can legally load that Ranger down to 16K lbs. I can then figure out a way to load a heavy 5th wheel on that Ranger and drive it through California on my regular non-commercial class A license which rates me to drive any non commercial vehicle and any non commercial trailer.

While incredibly stupid to do so, California couldn't do a darn thing about it. I'm under the federal bridge limits of 20K per axle, I'm under my registered weight of 12K lbs and I'm under my tire rate of 12K lbs. This is all hyperbole, mind you, because the Ranger likely wouldn't make it out of my driveway without falling apart, but my point is that it would be PERFECTLY LEGAL.

ShinerBock wrote:


Riddle me this.... What is the difference mechanically between an F250 with the camper package and a regular F350? Or between a regular F350 and one with the 10k GVWR package?

The rear differential...

For gas power trucks the F250 has the Torque Shift G transmission and the F350 has the same Torque Shift as the diesel.

That link by shinerbock says what I thought it would. No reference to manufacture ratings. Similar wording to here in WaSt 're RCW45. That this states weight laws and how enforced etc.
All pickups be them used commercial or personal only pay/buy tonnage in 2000 lb increments. Base amount is tare time 150 percent to next higher ton. If your rig empty is 7000-7500 lbs, that is 10500-11250, rounded up to 12,000 registered gvw. You are legal to that give assuming you paid the tonnage, and your tire widths times 500 lbs is greater than you weigh. Or 20k for a single axle, 34000 for tandem as noted. There are a few other exceptions per say.
Also as noted, if you do as I have with my C2500, my paid for registration is 8000 lbs. If I run down the road at good sticker 8600 gvw, I am overweight by 600 lbs. I've been pulled over in rigs 150 percent of manufacturers gvwr, but under FBL limits and paid for registration. I have no overweight tickets in my name, or company name.
Gcwr or its many variations, is not a legal number of any sort. Only in that the axles will be added up for max you can run down the road at, using formulas mentioned for max enforced loads.
The loads enforced by leo/cveo types, is max point load the road cab handle before road is damaged. THIS is the weight law enforced. Not the manufacture warranty/performance ratings.

Marty