the limits of diesel

The Mad Norsky wrote:

Desertboy wrote:

KD4UPL wrote:
The 25 mpg is for the 1500 V6. Any Dodge with the diesel will be considered a heavy duty truck by the EPA and so no MPG figures will be available. You won't find any diesel truck on any lot with MPG posted on the window sticker.
Will a Dodge diesel get 25 MPG? I really doubt it.

My old 3/4 ton dodge is getting about 21 mpg, But that's with a 12 valve engine, It will pull anything I need to pull.

My former Dodge 12 valve Cummins also got 21, even 22 MPG. 3:55 rear axle. But it needed three miles of unobstructed road to pass someone doing 55 in a 65 zone while I was pulling the small fifth wheel we had at the time. Really gutless, but great fuel mileage. 96 Dodge 2500.

That was probably me you were passing lol, I don't drive fast while on vacation, I don't know how fast my old truck will go, But I had the cruise set on 65 when coming home with a Avion last weekend, And it does fine with my 20' trailer and a 4 wheel drive tractor loaded and 74 inch tiller/ brush hog/ front end loader, The tractor is heavy also, Its a MX 5100 Kubota, I just run with the Cruise set on 55 or 60 loaded because your tires aren't rated to go any faster than that anyway.

only way to improve mpg and increase towing ability is to go electric,or hybrid electric,,

I wish our truck manufacturers got into the game already otherwise foreign makers will
listen closely at 4.25
http://youtu.be/qJJA648cwD8


http://youtu.be/VMGdmB0-xRE

Do people really care that much about MPG. I didn't buy my truck or coach for great MPG. I bought them both to enjoy, and I do. If I'm worried about MPG I drive something else.

My F350 has been tweaked, with a tuner and dpf delete, factory 400 hp 800 tq, now it's 600/1100 and it get 18-19 @ 70 empty, it's 4x4 or I'd get better.

So if the factory decided to then they would get 1,000 ft lbs easier even with emissions

I seen the dodge commercial he's referring to and it's a class mpg, meaning they get a best of 850 Torque, and 25 mpg, not both on the same truck. When u go look at the new dodge diesel they will have no mpg rating on the sticker.

If it does get 25 mpg hwy it's a 2wd @ 55 mph, which I will be very close to, but who does 55 =)

With my lance 850 I just went from Indiana to Grand Junction CO and round trip average speed was 63 and I got 13.1 mpg

bcbigfoot wrote:

joe123 wrote:
I have a dodge 1 ton 4x4 with a Cummins engine and automatic 4 speed overdrive, the best mileage I have ever got was 13 miles per gallon any one says they get 25 miles per gallon is full of it.

You should look into whats wrong with your truck. I get 19 to 20 mpg (US gal) at 65 mph unloaded with a 2002 Dodge 2wd dually quad cab 3500 Cummins with 4:10 gears.

Loaded with 4000 lbs camper I have averaged 15mph over the last 50000 miles at average speeds of 58 to 60 mph.

X2,
Mines a 1-ton dually,12valve Cummins,auto w/4:10's, hauling a Host Everest. I consistently have gotten 14-15mpg while hauling all over the steep pacific northwest. Unloaded, i've always gotten between 18-22 depending on mixed traffic conditions.

wintersun wrote:
To produce more power from an engine you need to reduce pumping loses (cooling system, oil pump, fuel pump, etc.) and burn the fuel more efficiently. High compression diesel engines are already more efficient in terms of the percent of the available energy in a gallon of fuel than the lower compression gasoline engines.

Sometimes to meet new emissions levels requirements the manufacturers need to improve the efficiency of their engines so that more of the fuel is burned inside the cylinders and not sent out the tailpipe. Cummins is doing this with its next generation of engines for medium to heavy trucks and this technology may find its way into the small engines used in pickup trucks in time.

What is unfortunate is that the public wants more powerful cars and trucks and will buy a new truck or truck to get an extra 50HP when their current vehicle is not in need of replacement. They will buy the new vehicle to get an extra 10-15 percent gain in horsepower but are less eager to buy a new vehicle to gain an extra 10-15% in fuel economy. Otherwise there would be no Hummers on the road and the automakers would be focusing on hybrids.

The gating factor with today's pickups is the amount of torque that the transmissions and drivetrain can handle and auto transmissions can handle more power than a manual transmission. Drag racers switched to automatic transmissions starting in the 1970's for this reason. There is also a limit as to how much of that power can be directed to the rear tires before they start to spin.

GM provided a lot of information for the 2011 trucks with the LML engine that produced a great deal more horsepower and torque but needed stronger bearing journals, improved oil flow, and stronger drivetrain components to insure that overall reliability was not reduced.

The MPG figures are from EPA tests of vehicles that are indoors and not subject to air drag or changes in elevation. They are not close to real world performance in terms of fuel usage and this is particularly true with highway MPG. The manufacturers continue to use very tall gearing and this helps with higway mileage figures but these same gears work against the truck that is being used to haul or tow a heavy load.

You bring up some really good points. I noticed that the EPA mileage estimates on the gasoline engines seem to be inflated in some cases. I have always been lucky to get near what they claim. I have owned two VW TDI cars and both diesels got much more mileage than the EPA rating. My current Passat with an automatic transmission gets around 38+ mpg in town, with most of the driving being done with the AC on. On the road it gets around 45 mpg. Those numbers are significantly higher than the EPA estimate and my TDI Jetta was the same way. It didn't get quite as good of mileage with a manual transmission, as the Passat does, but it is close. My 1994 Dodge dually got 14 mpg pulling my 34' Avion. My 2000 Ford 7.3 Powerstroke gets about 11 mpg pulling that same trailer. That trailer has been pulled by gasoline trucks but the mileage was so bad that I wouldn't even consider it again. Maybe the new gasoline trucks will do much better, but the older ones didn't.

KD4UPL wrote:
The 25 mpg is for the 1500 V6. Any Dodge with the diesel will be considered a heavy duty truck by the EPA and so no MPG figures will be available. You won't find any diesel truck on any lot with MPG posted on the window sticker.
Will a Dodge diesel get 25 MPG? I really doubt it.

New 2014 Dodge 1/2 ton V6 diesel will probably pull 25mpg all day long. It won't have the torque of the cummins or the load capacity but it should be thriftier than my old 03. Just went through this thought process of looking for a new truck and decided the best new truck was my old one refurbed. The early 03 is my favorite. First common rail and just before the power wars and loss of economy started. My standard output 03 with michelins and toneau cover has no problem getting 25mpg on a road trip. Towing a small trailer it drops to around 20. I'm now looking for a small light weight truck camper that will not kill my higheway mileage.. (-:}

Well i had a 26 mpg car when i purchased, home and got fed up with being trapped exchanged it, for an UV and got fed up with inadequate usage 14 to 22 and being unpleasant.

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I like how some people that do not drive a gasser with a camper tells me that I get less than 10mpg. I have seen as high as 12.6 on my 6.2 with the camper on and loaded for the trip and like I said previously stated I had a 10.88mpg average over 11,000 miles to Alaska and back. This includes many stops for wildlife pictures and than take off again and then have to slow way down for frost heaves and then take off again and all of the road construction where you are sitting waiting to continue on which we know is not good on fuel mileage. I also had a rack on the front of my truck with a 56" wide solid tool box and never had any heating problems and believe it or not it did get hot in AK as it was over 95* there when we were there in Fairbanks. Also on the way home we were hitting over 100* areas and never had a heating problem even pulling the passes.

Like I said before you can drive what you want and I'll drive what I want but to sit here and try to tell me how my truck handles when you have not driven it is just plain silly just as I can't tell you how your truck drives because I not driving it. It you are trying to use what you use to have many years ago better come to the present times as things have changed. Also as far as the cost goes if I wanted to buy a new diesel truck today I could go out and pay cash for it and not even think about it. It is not the cost as the need, I don't need a diesel anymore after having many of them in the past, the gasser works just great for me.

Bedlam wrote:
My 4-banger gasser towing a 3500 lb boat over the mountain passes was limited to 45 mph and got 7-8 mpg on that leg of the trip. Flats, it was lucky to get twice that mileage as long as there there was no wind. With four times the HP in my V8, I can tow the same load comfortably (barely even feel it) at suggested speeds (60 mph) and still get the mid-teens regardless of terrain or wind.

I can guarantee the 4-banger truck wasn't optimized for towing. The vast majority of small pickups never tow a thing so the drivetrain is optimized for running lightly loaded. In contrast, when you get a heavy duty truck with a big V8, they expect you to tow so they optimize for towing.

Start with a blank slate and a 4 banger will get similar mileage.

But to the original question, unless you are pushing into the 18k+ range towing, 350hp is going to be plenty. This is more about ego for 99% of heavy duty towers.