To Not Winterize in PA?

Its in the low 20 at night route 80 corridor Pocono Area. Snow is getting blown.

from another thread "With a faucet open I plug the air in and blow from the closest to the farthest and back again. Open low point drains first and then after blowing lines. I still wind up with water in the lines so I have to run some RV AF in anyways". seems like some RVs are not totally self draining. :s
bumpy

I live two hours north of Pittsburgh and I have done it both ways, and haven't had any issues.

Redterpos3 wrote:
The debate is very interesting! My dealer said to "blow it out". After reading on this site, it sounds to me to be good to run the pink stuff through the system, pushing out all the water, and then open all the drains, and let gravity remove the bulk of pink stuff. One item my dealer says to do, is put a crushed can of soda (no soda left) in the toilet trap to keep the seal open. Others here have said to put the pink stuff in the toilet to keep the seal wet? Which is best??? I'm confused on this one! :h

is your "dealer" the same person who will profit if your system freezes up and breaks something? if something does break and you fuss at him/her his/her response will be that it is your fault since you did an inadequate job of blowing out the lines. He will never tell you that the fault was that the manufacturer left a dip in a horizontal run that accumulated the little water left clinging to the sides of the pipes after you stopped blowing.
If blowing out the system was the standard/recommended procedure, why do they bother putting in water heater bypass kits? :s

bumpy

I use the pink stuff in the toilet..

The debate is very interesting! My dealer said to "blow it out". After reading on this site, it sounds to me to be good to run the pink stuff through the system, pushing out all the water, and then open all the drains, and let gravity remove the bulk of pink stuff. One item my dealer says to do, is put a crushed can of soda (no soda left) in the toilet trap to keep the seal open. Others here have said to put the pink stuff in the toilet to keep the seal wet? Which is best??? I'm confused on this one! :h

Sorry GDEtrailer, but I just don't buy your claim on this one. I see zero evidence that RV antifreeze is diluted, incapable of doing exactly what it's designed to do, or greatly compromised by being additionally diluted while being introduced into the system.

By the time you properly gravity drain the system, prior to adding antifreeze, the vast majority of water has been evacuated. As for you claim that the stuff in your words "will freeze", or that you waste "a considerable amount" while protecting the system, my experience has been that neither concern is an issue. I know of one local dealership owner who uses multiple 55 gallon drums of the stuff on his inventory and only has issues when his help screws something up, like missing an outside shower, or bypass valves on a heater. After using it for the last fifteen years, typically more than once per year while head south for the holidays and back, I have never had a problem. I always use less than two gallons to do the job properly. Our RVs typically endure several nights a year with below zero temps. and do just fine. My personal risk tolerance makes me a bit leery of just blowing lines out, but you are literally the first person I ever heard of that claims that RV antifreeze is ineffective, or problematic.

Well I've just got done pushing antifreeze through the water system. Really don't want to chance any breakage. On the other hand how long does it take to flush out the antifreeze?

Gdetrailer wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

Lantley wrote:

1buda wrote:
I just blew air through out the entire water system, filled all the traps with antifreeze. We did get our first snow fall about 2". I plan on going out for Thanksgiving weekend. I think I should be good?

If you did not add antifreeze to your water lines you are taking a chance.
I also am planning to go out for Thanksgiving. I use a space heater when temps. dip below 32º. I am in a milder climate than Pittsburgh but I am also taking a chance.
The only foolproof way to avoid problems is to use antifreeze.

No, that is not true, blowing the water out and opening the low point drains works extremely well. In fact there are thousands (or even tens of thousands)of solar heating systems which USE THE SAME PRINCIPLE as blowing out the lines.

Those systems are call "drain back" systems. When the panel temps dip below the the tank temps the pump shuts off and the ENTIRE panel array simply drains back into the tank VIA GRAVITY. SOME water will stay behind but what does is very small and will allow space for the ice to expand. Simple but yet effective without the need for antifreeze (could you imagine how much it would cost to fill 500 or even 1000 gallon water storage tank full of antifreeze?).

I HAVE been doing it this way for 15 yrs and yet to have any broken lines AND I am about 1 hr NORTH of the OPs location so I often get clobbered by lower temps than Pittsburgh.

one "fact" you seem to have omitted, the solar heating system as well as systems in cabins that are designed to be drained out, are in fact constructed so that piping, elbows, dips, etc. are all self draining. to rely on a slapped together RV water system to be identical is foolish, IMHO.
you may not have a low spot in a run but you won't learn of it until it is too late. so save $4.00, and as Clint sez, "do you feel lucky"?
bumpy

:R

Your RV system IS designed well enough to use AIR only after all that IS why they INCLUDE "low point" drains.

Yes, the pipes may not be straight or angled to the drain points but the drain point are PLACED in such a away that more than 99% of the water will be blown out. Generally you only need 60%-70% of the water to be removed to make enough room for the water to expand. After all it is the high expansion ratio of water that does the damage. Give it some room and the water as it freezes doesn't damage anything.

In reality, if you allow the air to push the water out, then close the faucet, wait a minute then open again repeating that a couple of times removes nearly all the water in the system. Pausing in between allows water to "pool" in the low places and the sudden opening pushes it out. Finishing with opening the low point drains and it is a no brainer.

Keep in mind just because you put pink stuff in doesn't mean you won't have broken lines. You have to push out ALL the water, the problem is the pink stuff you buy in the gallon jugs is PREMIXED to 50/50. The pink stuff actually absorbs water while you are putting it in. This actually weakens the solution and it WILL freeze, you have NO WAY of measuring the strength so you have to waste a considerable amount in the process. So basically it is a GUESS at best.

If you recycle it for next year you are really taking chances since it WILL be diluted and running it again further dilutes it.

Something else to be concerned about, you also get the CHANCE of JUNK pink stuff. I have had that happen with windshield washer fluid that FROZE SOLID even at temps as low as 30 degrees.

Your choice...

that 1% of the water can accumulate in one low spot and destroy a pipe.
bumpy

Bumpyroad wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

Lantley wrote:

1buda wrote:
I just blew air through out the entire water system, filled all the traps with antifreeze. We did get our first snow fall about 2". I plan on going out for Thanksgiving weekend. I think I should be good?

If you did not add antifreeze to your water lines you are taking a chance.
I also am planning to go out for Thanksgiving. I use a space heater when temps. dip below 32º. I am in a milder climate than Pittsburgh but I am also taking a chance.
The only foolproof way to avoid problems is to use antifreeze.

No, that is not true, blowing the water out and opening the low point drains works extremely well. In fact there are thousands (or even tens of thousands)of solar heating systems which USE THE SAME PRINCIPLE as blowing out the lines.

Those systems are call "drain back" systems. When the panel temps dip below the the tank temps the pump shuts off and the ENTIRE panel array simply drains back into the tank VIA GRAVITY. SOME water will stay behind but what does is very small and will allow space for the ice to expand. Simple but yet effective without the need for antifreeze (could you imagine how much it would cost to fill 500 or even 1000 gallon water storage tank full of antifreeze?).

I HAVE been doing it this way for 15 yrs and yet to have any broken lines AND I am about 1 hr NORTH of the OPs location so I often get clobbered by lower temps than Pittsburgh.

one "fact" you seem to have omitted, the solar heating system as well as systems in cabins that are designed to be drained out, are in fact constructed so that piping, elbows, dips, etc. are all self draining. to rely on a slapped together RV water system to be identical is foolish, IMHO.
you may not have a low spot in a run but you won't learn of it until it is too late. so save $4.00, and as Clint sez, "do you feel lucky"?
bumpy

:R

Your RV system IS designed well enough to use AIR only after all that IS why they INCLUDE "low point" drains.

Yes, the pipes may not be straight or angled to the drain points but the drain point are PLACED in such a away that more than 99% of the water will be blown out. Generally you only need 60%-70% of the water to be removed to make enough room for the water to expand. After all it is the high expansion ratio of water that does the damage. Give it some room and the water as it freezes doesn't damage anything.

In reality, if you allow the air to push the water out, then close the faucet, wait a minute then open again repeating that a couple of times removes nearly all the water in the system. Pausing in between allows water to "pool" in the low places and the sudden opening pushes it out. Finishing with opening the low point drains and it is a no brainer.

Keep in mind just because you put pink stuff in doesn't mean you won't have broken lines. You have to push out ALL the water, the problem is the pink stuff you buy in the gallon jugs is PREMIXED to 50/50. The pink stuff actually absorbs water while you are putting it in. This actually weakens the solution and it WILL freeze, you have NO WAY of measuring the strength so you have to waste a considerable amount in the process. So basically it is a GUESS at best.

If you recycle it for next year you are really taking chances since it WILL be diluted and running it again further dilutes it.

Something else to be concerned about, you also get the CHANCE of JUNK pink stuff. I have had that happen with windshield washer fluid that FROZE SOLID even at temps as low as 30 degrees.

Your choice...