Towing question

WOW I didn't mean to start so much arguing over this topic. We decided not to get the Explorer. To fix the surburban that is 12 years old and almost 200,000 miles on it isn't worth it. We love pickups, but we have three tall kids (my 12 year old is already 5'9) and we want to travel a little and see the country. Thank you for all your input. One last question how about the shorter Tahoe's or Durangos.

Explorer + 7000 lbs. towed = failure. The first thing to fail will be your nerves from the poor braking, handling, and towing performance. The next will be drivetrain and suspension of the Explorer. The other failure that may happen is catastrophic accident because of the weights involved.

It is terribly difficult to estimate proper towing performance from anecdotal experience posted on this Forum. There are users that believe a good towing setup is Mom's grocery-getter, as long as it moves in Drive. There are others that believe anything less than a diesel 1 ton is inadequate. If you're looking for a new tow vehicle, I would suggest to get out and drive a couple, hooked to your TT. With the exception of a few, there aren't any SUV's that are going to be well mated to 7K lbs.

MFOX You should use this link as a guide to tow ratings.
Www.campinglife.com/tow-ratings-database/ Although it is fairly accurate it is not the last word in calculations
Your Suburban is rated @ 6000 lbs towing capacity. You must DEDUCT everything that is IN the Suburban (driver,passengers,gasoline,and stuff) AND the tongue weight
Example:
Suburban. 5759 curb weight
Fuel 32 gal 256
Tongue weight. 650 5000 lb trailer @ 13% tongue weight
Driver & passengers 415
Total. 7080

In this example you are already 80 lbs over the limit of your TV WITH a 5000 lb TT add 2000 lbs to the TT and the TV is 340 lbs over due to the increase in tongue weight. This is without any cargo in the truck.

As many of the previous posts have stated. It is important to stay under the ALL of the weight ratings.

I recently bought a 27 foot trailer from an owner in Ridge NY. The DMV Registered weight is 350 lbs Less than the sticker weight (find this inside one of the kitchen cabinets or doors) of 4927. My Tahoe can tow 7500. A TT GROSS WEIGHT of 6000 and the fully loaded Tahoe @ 6800 is 200 lbs under the Gross combined weight rating 13000 lbs. BUT I have to keep my trailer weight under 5500 to keep the TV and rear axel weight under the limit. In my situation the trailer is 2000 lbs under the specified tow rating to keep ALL the specs in range.

RinconVTR wrote:

MFOX wrote:
Hi! We are looking for a new truck because our 12 year old suburban is slowly dying. We are looking at a Ford Explorer 8 cyclinder with a max. tow rating of 7000. We are also looking at a KZ Frontier 2505 that the GVWR is at 7000 lbs. Now we would be using a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. Is this going to be okay. I tried to find the answers else where online, but they aren't giving me all the info put together. Thanks for any help.

There's nothing but******for replies in this thread so far.

NO ONE pointed out you stated the trailer is 7000lbs GROSS, meaning it will likely NEVER come near that number unless you carelessly overload it.

GVWR is NOT the number to shop and match TV's with. Sure you can, there is no harm, but more often than not you will buy a TV that is far more than you ever required.

In your case, matching the TV max towing with the max the trailer should ever be, should be fine. HOWEVER, the Explorer is typically known as a Mid-Size SUV. Just because it can tow 7000lbs, doesnt mean it will do so comfortably. You'll want to make the the actual loaded weight isnt really that close to the max ratings, strictly for comfort.

I towed with a 2012 Honda Pilot nearly maxed out, and it did so very well, but I felt it wasnt comfortable enough to travel entire days at a time, as we changed our plans to start national travel with the TT. So we bought a 2010 Sequoia. There isnt a whole lot different, other than I dont feel the trailer as much, and day long drives wont wear on the driver as much.

You say the Pilot towed your trailer "very well" but then you say it wasn't comfortable enough to tow a whole day. That doesn't compute. If it's a tiring struggle on the driver to tow something then it's clearly not doing it "very well".

The OP needs more of a tow vehicle if he plans on towing the trailer he wants any fair distance. They need a truck based SUV minimum for a trailer that large and heavy.

2012Coleman wrote:

The truth of the matter is, the only way to know what the trailer in question actually weighs is to roll it over the scales.
Once you know the real weights on the axles and on the tongue, then you can made educated decisions regarding suitability of tow vehicle for a given trailer.

Great advice, but how does on acomplish this when they have yet to purchase a TT? And if the TT is already purchased, how would one actually get it to the scale to determine this info without already having a TV?

I don't perceive any of the non ranting posts in this thread as being argumenitive. All good info for a person nw to RVing. And one does not have to buy a new TV either.

Good point, and therein lies one of the major rubs in this whole activity. It's why I like seeing people post actual weights of their trailer on these forums.

My thoughts are that good place to "start" ( and that is what it should thought of, in my opinion, is a starting place ) is to take the manufacturers dry weight, and add 1000 pounds. That is likely going to cover the normal add on optional equipment, and things like propane, and a very minimal amount of "stuff". In my case, my actual weight is about 900 pounds over the the OE listed dry weight, but I travel solo, and pack pretty darned light.

The truth of the matter is, the only way to know what the trailer in question actually weighs is to roll it over the scales.
Once you know the real weights on the axles and on the tongue, then you can made educated decisions regarding suitability of tow vehicle for a given trailer.

Great advice, but how does on acomplish this when they have yet to purchase a TT? And if the TT is already purchased, how would one actually get it to the scale to determine this info without already having a TV?

I don't perceive any of the non ranting posts in this thread as being argumenitive. All good info for a person nw to RVing. And one does not have to buy a new TV either.

You guys are getting down to arguing semantics here about all these weight particulars. The truth of the matter is, the only way to know what the trailer in question actually weighs is to roll it over the scales.
Once you know the real weights on the axles and on the tongue, then you can made educated decisions regarding suitability of tow vehicle for a given trailer.
Not every buyer has extra money to burn when buying a tow vehicle, so simply going out and buying a HD 2500 or 3500, "just to make sure" they have adequate capacity makes little sense. Often a smaller, less expensive, and cheaper to operate tow vehicle might very well be a good choice.

RinconVTR wrote:

MFOX wrote:
We are also looking at a KZ Frontier 2505 that the GVWR is at 7000 lbs.

There's nothing but******for replies in this thread so far.

NO ONE pointed out you stated the trailer is 7000lbs GROSS, meaning it will likely NEVER come near that number unless you carelessly overload it.

Dude, sorry, but you are so wrong... We just happen to have a KZ TT with a GVWR of 7,000 lbs. Weighs 6800 lbs loaded for camping with some ordinary/basic stuff loaded into it. It would be very easy to overload. Travel with just one holding tank full and it would be over the GVWR. Pack more stuff into it for a long road trip and it could easily be overloaded. Not an uncommon situation. Not only this, our KZ TT has a tongue weight of almost 15% of the GVW - nearly 1,000 lbs. and approaching double the factory dry number. Don't give someone advice if you don't know what you are talking about. Too much of that going on as it is.

Problem when shopping for a new TT, you can't just run them all to a scale. Using the GVWR would be the smart thing to do. Never use factory listed dry weights for decision making for a TV.

To the OP, towing near the max. tow capacity of a TV is not a good idea. You'll be under-powered and overstress the drivetrain and you'll be very slooow. On steeper hills you'll be down to around 30mph flat out and you'll find it hard to maintain speed when it's windy & gusty. BTDT and never again... You really need to know what your actual payload capacity and tongue weight is. For an SUV, the GCWR could be a factor too. You may need a TV capable of 1,000 of TW payload for that KZ. I can't see use anything less than a 1/2 ton (or equivalent), and not just any old 1/2 ton either. There are a few choices in bigger SUVs that'd work, like a Suburban 2500 for ex..

When looking at a TV's payload capacity, the factory curb wt. only includes for a 145-150 lb driver and full tank of fuel. Kids, pets, the DW, groceries and camping gear can easily add 400-500 lbs of payload. Throw some firewood and a generator in the back and you'll be more. For that KZ TT, you *could* require a TV with an actual payload capacity of around 1500 lbs. You'd also be wise to weigh your TV and subtract that from the GVWR on the door jamb sticker as in some cases, the actual payload capacity can be a lot less, particularly if your vehicle has a bunch of heavy factory options. If you are going to push the limits of your TV, you really ought to know the actual numbers.

I pulled a KZ 261RK with a 2010 Ford Explorer that I bought new with the tow package (4.6 V8 etc.) pulled fine but did not handle well. Went to a F-150 and now all issues I had are gone and it handles fine, equalizer hitch.

Exactly. Very few newcommers realise this. 1/2 tons almost always run out of cargo capacity well before they get to the max tow number.

My F150 extended cab, 4x4, 5.4L engine has a payload capacity of 1400+. By the time I substract for DW and I, plus the weight of the WD hitch, plus tongue weight of about 600#, I can't carry a lot of stuff in the pickup bed.

And my TT has a GVWR of only 4950#

CKNSLS wrote:

gmw photos wrote:
I think the point of the whole argument regarding the trailer gross weight rating vs what it's advertised dry weight is....and all the yada, yada that surrounds the discussion is this: you need to know what the trailer really weighs, as you would use it, ready to go camp.
For instance, my trailer has a GVWR of over 6000 pounds, but in reality, it weighs just under 4000 pounds when I pull out of the driveway. So it's good to know real numbers, and there is no substitute to rolling it onto the scales to find out the truth.

A lot of beginners have no concept of PAYLOAD and they don't even know where that little yellow and white sticker is located. That is where the problem of towing weights come in. Generally with a half ton truck with a standard towing package you will not be able to tow the full manufacturer's weight rating because you will EXCEED PAYLOAD FIRST. So many first timers have no concept of this equation.