What does it take to make 20k mile oil?

Does anyone else remember in the 70's when "Mobil 1" came out and claimed to go 50,000 miles between changes?

To the guy that posted "AMZ/OIL" you are right on. My Dad was the first Dealer in WA back in the early 70's. PENZ/OIL did not like the similarity so they had to go to AMS/OIL.

Lynnmor wrote:

filrupmark wrote:
I think it amazing that any Vega lasted 135 K :D

Aluminum block with no cylinder liners..... what could possibly go wrong? :h

Sleve the engine and they were great little cars.

valhalla360 wrote:


I think you are way behind the times. Most new vehicles are in the 7-15k range for manufacturers recommendations. A lot of new vehicles actually track usage patterns and adjust the recommendation based on that.

It's been years since manufacturers have recommended 3k between oil changes.

The problem is taking it beyond 20k for other than high mileage commercial fleets quickly runs up against the law of diminishing returns.

Example: You have a new $50k diesel pickup and will sell it at 150k miles.
- If you use 10k intervals, that's $50k plus $1500 (at $100each) for oil changes for a total of $51.5k.
- If you go to 20k intervals, it's $50.75k...or a 1.4% savings. Of course if anything goes wrong due to the longer interval, you likely lost far more than the 1.4% savings and those issues are most likely to happen post warranty and even if during the warranty, if they can show you didn't follow the recommended schedule (many track oil changes), they can deny the warranty (often even if not really related to oil changes).

Even worse for gas pickups as I still usually get oil changes for $20-30 each but a new gas pickup is often in the $30k range. Saving 7 oil changes at $30, is only $210 over a similar time frame.

I know full well what current vehicles state and how "smart" oil life monitoring systems work. I made my statement on what people that I know normally do based on their perception, not what they should do per their owners manual. These are two different thing in many regards.

Most people that I know(and many here) think it is "cheap insurance" to change their oil every 3k or 5k miles regardless what what the manual or oil life monitor states. Why? Because they don't know any better and feel safe at these numbers which is why I posted this info to inform them that they can go longer with a lot of research and development behind why they can go longer, not just marketing jargon. Again, it does't matter what the manual or monitor states in the real world, it is what people perceive as safe which could be backed up by actual data or in many cases what they always done or have been told.

As I stated above, this mainly benefits fleets that not only pay for the oil change but also lose in downtime and paying the employee to sit and wait for an oil change. Int the case of my company, it costs a lot for a service foreman that gets paid $40+ and hour to sit and wait for an oil change for and hour or two. We also hove to compensate our serviceability to our customers for that hour. In the case of our deliver drivers, we have to make many adjustments just to schedule in an oil change for one driver.

Also as I stated above, the point of this post was not about going 20k miles between intervals. It is about giving people more insight as to how much research and development goes into making oil, and how it is not just marketing a new label on the same product which is what is perceived by many. Not sure if you actually watched it, but even the host of the video states that.

ShinerBock wrote:
We all benefit indirectly if these type of fleets start using longer drain intervals. Just think of how much oil would be saved if these fleets(or everyone) switched from a 3k or 5k drain intervals to 10k or 20k intervals. That would save A LOT of oil from being used making a huge impact on our dependency on foreign oil and less money going into the hands of people that use that money against us. Sure, an unneeded 3k mile oil change interval is "cheap insurance" to one guy, but multiply him my hundreds of thousands every year and that becomes a lot of wasted oil.

I think you are way behind the times. Most new vehicles are in the 7-15k range for manufacturers recommendations. A lot of new vehicles actually track usage patterns and adjust the recommendation based on that.

It's been years since manufacturers have recommended 3k between oil changes.

The problem is taking it beyond 20k for other than high mileage commercial fleets quickly runs up against the law of diminishing returns.

Example: You have a new $50k diesel pickup and will sell it at 150k miles.
- If you use 10k intervals, that's $50k plus $1500 (at $100each) for oil changes for a total of $51.5k.
- If you go to 20k intervals, it's $50.75k...or a 1.4% savings. Of course if anything goes wrong due to the longer interval, you likely lost far more than the 1.4% savings and those issues are most likely to happen post warranty and even if during the warranty, if they can show you didn't follow the recommended schedule (many track oil changes), they can deny the warranty (often even if not really related to oil changes).

Even worse for gas pickups as I still usually get oil changes for $20-30 each but a new gas pickup is often in the $30k range. Saving 7 oil changes at $30, is only $210 over a similar time frame.

Vega? Poster just got dated!!! LOL

:C

Lots of interesting comments. My main reason for posting this was not about the oil itself, but rather to give some insight on what goes into bringing a new oil to market. I have spoken with many people who think it is all the same and they just slap different labels on the bottle.

As far as the specific 20k mile oil in the video. I think the people who will benefit directly are fleet customers or delivery contractors. At my company, we have a fleet of over 200 gas vehicles nationwide dedicated to parts delivery. We generally run the vehicles to 200k before we auction them off and replace them. Being able to go further on an oil change is a significant impact to our bottom line and in terms of vehicle uptime. There are many other industries with similar fleets from police vehicles to cable service trucks.

We all benefit indirectly if these type of fleets start using longer drain intervals. Just think of how much oil would be saved if these fleets(or everyone) switched from a 3k or 5k drain intervals to 10k or 20k intervals. That would save A LOT of oil from being used making a huge impact on our dependency on foreign oil and less money going into the hands of people that use that money against us. Sure, an unneeded 3k mile oil change interval is "cheap insurance" to one guy, but multiply him my hundreds of thousands every year and that becomes a lot of wasted oil.

Wait what you got 135,000 out of a Vega. Lol
Back in the day when the first full synthetic oil hit the market my cousin ran a mail route with a then new long body Dodge van with the old slant 6. Took mail from central post ofc to rural post offices 6 days a week. 6k miles a month. A rep told him it never wears out just change the filter. Once a month he changed the quart filter and added a quart. (Replaces additives) Near 500k the van was replaced. The motor never died and never had but one oil change.

Use to run a team route for Ryder when they changed the interval from 20 to 30k. New ish truck to 700k.

Now I transport Airstreams & box TTs from mfg to dealerships countrywide mostly Ohio to west coast. 371,000 on my 14 Ram Ecodiesel. First was 10k interval for warranty last 250k was 15k interval with fuel filter every other oil change. Per oil analysis results & drive routine. Useing T6.

steveksfc wrote:
Reminds me of a customer of the dealership I worked at long time ago. He had a oil filter that used TP for a cartridge. Motor had over 300,000 miles on it and never used any oil. Did help him tear it down at 325,000 miles and it was clean as a whistle. Only did redo engine because of miles not any defects. Thing is oil it self doesn't get bad but needs changed because of the dirt and particles it picks up.

Modern oil, particularly for diesels has additives added that wear out over time.

For diesels, the additives neutralize the acidic byproducts. Seems silly to risk a $10-15k engine over a $100 per year oil change.