Why do you Cummins guys want more gears

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Shiner you would like my combo. 100 degree weather and 6% grades nothing has ever come close to being hot.

I am not trying to throw dirt on you trans. It is an industrial workhorse meant to tow and is not known for its quick shifts. It also has a very steep 2-3 so you are not going to win any short distance drag racing battles in it. It is what it is, and it ain't what it ain't.

The other downside to all Ram HD's(including mine) is their torque converter. They are very inefficient when not locked up due to their high stall speed. You are hardly putting any power to the ground until locked. I noticed a huge difference in off-the-line performance when I changed out the stock torque converter to a 15-blade ultra-low stall that put way more power to the ground when not locked.

I responded to what you said about temps. You just responded to I have no idea.

You don’t drive an AISIN.

FishOnOne wrote:


I believe this crude video again answers the OP question. This isn't about torque converter efficiency, gear shifting, TC lockup, etc... It's about having the right gear for the application and there's almost infinite amount of applications of hills, mountains, load, not lugging the engine, and keeping the engine in it sweet spot which only helps with long term reliability and improved fuel efficiency...etc...etc...

My TC inefficiency, steep gear ratio, and slow shifting were in regards to your drag race video. The rest of what you said is basically what I stated in my first post in this thread

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Here's a crude test of a F350 vs Ram 3500. Torque rise or not the 10 speed delivered the performance for reasons we all should know.

Link


BTW... Towing Just Got Easier!

Very crude. That Aisin doesn't shift fast and the 2-3 gear is very steep and almost sounded like he left off at 6:53 of the video due to how low 3rd gear drops the RPMs Definitely aren't going to win any races with the Aisin. With 4.10 gears at full throttle, going from 2nd to 3rd will drop you almsot 1,000 rpm from about 2,850 to 1,900. That is if the TC locks up. If the TC isn't locked, then you are limited to how effiecnent your TC is at putting engine power to the trans.


Although, I am more concerned about how the trucks do at 90+F temps holding 65 mph while towing at 14k fiver. That is a more useful test for me.

In regards to the 6R140 and 10R140, I am just going based on what I am seeing in Ford ServiceNet. The 10R140 uses the same base shifting controls and engagement as the 6R140 which they had ZF design for them. ZF has been using thius type for years and was the only ones do do so. Ford never used this type of controls before the 6R so in my book they used what they learned from ZF in the 6R and carried it over to the 10R hence for the 6R was the basis for the 10R. They also share many base parts.

I believe this crude video again answers the OP question. This isn't about torque converter efficiency, gear shifting, TC lockup, etc... It's about having the right gear for the application and there's almost infinite amount of applications of hills, mountains, load, not lugging the engine, and keeping the engine in it sweet spot which only helps with long term reliability and improved fuel efficiency...etc...etc...

4x4ord wrote:
^^^^If the 10 speed is responsible for that then you should be able to show a 2021 Cummins getting spanked by a stock 10 speed Duramax .... I think you’ll come up empty handed.

The Duramax lacks torque to compete with the Cummins

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Shiner you would like my combo. 100 degree weather and 6% grades nothing has ever come close to being hot.

I am not trying to throw dirt on you trans. It is an industrial workhorse meant to tow and is not known for its quick shifts. It also has a very steep 2-3 so you are not going to win any short distance drag racing battles in it. It is what it is, and it ain't what it ain't.

The other downside to all Ram HD's(including mine) is their torque converter. They are very inefficient when not locked up due to their high stall speed. You are hardly putting any power to the ground until locked. I noticed a huge difference in off-the-line performance when I changed out the stock torque converter to a 15-blade ultra-low stall that put way more power to the ground when not locked.

Shiner you would like my combo. 100 degree weather and 6% grades nothing has ever come close to being hot.

FishOnOne wrote:
Here's a crude test of a F350 vs Ram 3500. Torque rise or not the 10 speed delivered the performance for reasons we all should know.

Link


BTW... Towing Just Got Easier!

Very crude. That Aisin doesn't shift fast and the 2-3 gear is very steep and almost sounded like he left off at 6:53 of the video due to how low 3rd gear drops the RPMs Definitely aren't going to win any races with the Aisin. With 4.10 gears at full throttle, going from 2nd to 3rd will drop you almsot 1,000 rpm from about 2,850 to 1,900. That is if the TC locks up. If the TC isn't locked, then you are limited to how effiecnent your TC is at putting engine power to the trans.


Although, I am more concerned about how the trucks do at 90+F temps holding 65 mph while towing at 14k fiver. That is a more useful test for me.

In regards to the 6R140 and 10R140, I am just going based on what I am seeing in Ford ServiceNet. The 10R140 uses the same base shifting controls and engagement as the 6R140 which they had ZF design for them. ZF has been using thius type for years and was the only ones do do so. Ford never used this type of controls before the 6R so in my book they used what they learned from ZF in the 6R and carried it over to the 10R hence for the 6R was the basis for the 10R. They also share many base parts.

^^^^If the 10 speed is responsible for that then you should be able to show a 2021 Cummins getting spanked by a stock 10 speed Duramax .... I think you’ll come up empty handed.

Here's a crude test of a F350 vs Ram 3500. Torque rise or not the 10 speed delivered the performance for reasons we all should know.

Link


BTW... Towing Just Got Easier!

ShinerBock wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^^Is the Ford 10r140 based off the 6r140 or the GM/Ford 10 speed? And what about GMs heavy duty 10 speed? Is it based of the GM/Ford 10 speed?

Looking at the parts and systems of both on my Ford dealer portal, I would say that the 10R140 is based on the 6R140 which is in turn based on the ZF 6HP. This is also the reason why there is so many aftermarket internals for the 10R already out in the market since many parts are shared from the 6R. PTO provisions are also the same. So I believe it would be safe to say that the basis of the 10R comes from the 6R and was improved upon from there looking at the data in my Ford system. Although there is no definitive answer from Ford saying either way.

The only thing common is they both look like a transmission. They both have a input and a output. There's your similarities.