Winterizing Question

LVJJJ wrote:
I assume it gets really cold for extended periods of time in Buffalo?, therefore antifreeze would be mandated.

Not bitter cold, but cold enough. Temperatures in the 20s and teens are common, and it's not unusual to go a week or two without the temperature getting above freezing.

Our last trip is usually in mid November. When it started to get cold, I would just keep the heat on inside, and flip on the electric heater in the water bay. I didn't worry about the filter and water lines behind the fridge, as I figured the heat from the back of the cooling unit would be enough. Not so. First few days into November of the second year with this rig, it froze and split open the filter fittings (it's not unusual for there to be snow on Halloween, and for kinds to wear parkas over or under their costumes.)

It's 81 degrees today, so it's hard to think of winterizing, but we've already had a few frost warnings, and a hard freeze is coming soon. After next weekend's trip I'll be blowing out the water line and removing the filter behind the fridge so things don't freeze again. No automatic ice maker or chilled water in the door for the last few trips, but it's better than something freezing and splitting open.

I'll be OK just blowing it out for now, until I do the full winterize at Thanksgiving. But I will be using antifreeze at that time. Everybody's rig and weather conditions are different, there isn't one winterization technique that is best for everybody. Some can get away with running the heat on the occasional cold day, others can get away with gravity drains, while others have to do the whole routine including antifreeze. It's all a matter of what works for your rig and your conditions.

ShapeShifter wrote:

LVJJJ wrote:
It's the water under pressure (or at least fills up the pipe) that is left in the small supply pipes that will expand when frozen and split said pipe.

It's water in any confined space. I've seen a little bit of water trapped in the threads of a water filter canister split the threads of the cannister. I've had lawn sprinklers split open even though they where not capped and there was room for water to expand. I've had a small drop of water in an air compressor filter drain split the drain valve open. I'm not about to risk having a sewer valve split open because there was a little water between the blade and valve body - not when it's so easy to prevent with just a little antifreeze.

Good points, sounds logical, I'll reconsider, but it's never happened to me in over 25 years. I think I see the difference in our points of view, here in the Pacific NW it doesn't freeze much, if it does, just a little below 32 (unless we get a northeaster, but it lasts less than a week). I assume it gets really cold for extended periods of time in Buffalo?, therefore antifreeze would be mandated.

LVJJJ wrote:
It's the water under pressure (or at least fills up the pipe) that is left in the small supply pipes that will expand when frozen and split said pipe.

It's water in any confined space. I've seen a little bit of water trapped in the threads of a water filter canister split the threads of the cannister. I've had lawn sprinklers split open even though they where not capped and there was room for water to expand. I've had a small drop of water in an air compressor filter drain split the drain valve open. I'm not about to risk having a sewer valve split open because there was a little water between the blade and valve body - not when it's so easy to prevent with just a little antifreeze.

I prefer to keep some water in my black tank to keep the few bits of solids left in it wet and not stuck to the bottom.. I drain it, add 10 gallons of water and a quart of anti-freeze.

I just want to thank all of you for sharing your experience. Being a newbe, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you.

Thanks Again.

been RV'ing since 1988, used antifreeze the first year, none since, no broken pipes. Once you drain the grey and black tanks why add antifreeze? The tanks are big so are the drain pipes, with no or little water in them, there is no way freezing could break anything. It's the water under pressure (or at least fills up the pipe) that is left in the small supply pipes that will expand when frozen and split said pipe. I do pour antifreeze in the p-traps cause water will stay in those.

enblethen wrote:
We do not like the taste of the anit freeze. Even chlorinating and then using backing soda does not kill the taste.

Make sure you don't put antifreeze in the water tank or water heater, it will be a lot of work to flush it out of them. I have a bypass kit that allow the on-board water pump to draw antifreeze directly from the bottle, but there are also hand pumps that allow pumping antifreeze into the city water inlet. After I've run antifreeze through the pipes, I know all of the water is displaced. Then I blow out the system so that the antifreeze doesn't sit in the pipes all winter. This seems to minimize the taste absorption. In the spring, I fill the tank and pipes with bleach solution to sanitize. After a couple rinses, there is no chlorine or antifreeze taste.

Initially, when I winterized this coach, I left the antifreeze in the lines all winter. It took a long time to flush the taste out of the lines. Since I've been blowing out the antifreeze, an antifreeze taste or smell simply hasn't been a problem for me. As an added benefit of blowing out the antifreeze: you don't have to add any extra to the traps or holding tanks, the act of blowing out the lines will leave plenty behind to protect the drain system.

gcloss wrote:

kearlms wrote:

enblethen wrote:
There is no need to put anti freeze in the blown out lines.

There are differing opinions on this. Some don't put in the antifreeze and it works fine. If you feel safe with not putting it in then that is fine for you. The concern most of us have is that the water can pool and freeze in corners or in low spots possibly causing damage to the lines. There is no way to get out 100% of the water. I blow mine out and then put in antifreeze for good measure. To each their own though.

I blow my lines out and use antifreeze. It takes me 2 gallons of anti-freeze to winterize my TT. So, at $3 per gallon I'll spend the $6 for piece of mind that nothing will freeze up.

I agree. This is what I do and it keeps my mind at ease. I would hate to have broken lines when it could have cost a whole $6, but now with broken lines much more.

As far as taste, if you do a good job of sanitizing your tanks there should not be any taste.

We do not like the taste of the anit freeze. Even chlorinating and then using backing soda does not kill the taste.
Blowing out completely leaves may only a minute amount of water in some locations.
Usin acompressor with sufficient volume is the key.

kearlms wrote:

enblethen wrote:
There is no need to put anti freeze in the blown out lines.

There are differing opinions on this. Some don't put in the antifreeze and it works fine. If you feel safe with not putting it in then that is fine for you. The concern most of us have is that the water can pool and freeze in corners or in low spots possibly causing damage to the lines. There is no way to get out 100% of the water. I blow mine out and then put in antifreeze for good measure. To each their own though.

I blow my lines out and use antifreeze. It takes me 2 gallons of anti-freeze to winterize my TT. So, at $3 per gallon I'll spend the $6 for piece of mind that nothing will freeze up.