Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

hawkeye-08 wrote:

ricatic wrote:

No need to start thinking that the pumps are "on the edge". Bosch has told us that 460 scar fuel is the performance minimum for their pumps. With 520 scar fuel in the US, owners are already into the engineering margin...or have exceeded it. The fact that we have not had an epidemic of failures tells me we are well into the margin but not past the total failure numbers.

Regards

I agree that 460 scar is the requirement, but I also know the pumps will not fail immediately at 461 scar. There are engineering margins built into most everything properly designed so the real threshold is somewhat different than the 460 scar. Ford learned from the Navistar engines that if you outsource and your supplier denies warranty claims, you lose alot of money unless you also deny warranty claims. I would venture to say that Bosch is denying Ford warranty claims and Ford is in turn denying customer warranty claims. Problem is, it is not the customer's fault that the HPFP cannot handle the fuel available in the US.

This is certainly a ticking time bomb, Ford is gambling that it will be solved before it blows up and really hurts sales.

Remember the Hubble space telescope? The big mirror was ground wrong (seems there was a mix up in the measurements, something about metric vs SAE). I wonder if some Ford engineer signed off on the fuel system requiring 460 scar fuel because US fuel is 520 scar, thinking that 520 is better than 460, with greater than 10% margin...

The very fact that Ford stepped into the engineering margin is a huge mistake. The small engineering margin of the Bosch CP4 series pumps is being demonstrated quite nicely, but inadvertently, in Ford's answers to the NHTSA inquiry. The difference in Canadian to US failures, 63% less IIRC, clearly points to an engineering margin that has been compromised. 11% poorer lubricity in US fuels has resulted in a big increase in US HPFP failures. GM knows they underestimated the engineering margin and is holding Bosch to their promise of no problems with the pump.

The argument that GM is not having similar issues with their CP4.2 Bosch pumps is nonsense. Until the NHTSA answers were released, there was a stubborn group of GM owners that wanted hold that position. When I posted, months ago, that there was a pallet full of failed GM pumps at Bosch, I was challenged to prove it. My challenger, and GM's biggest supporter in this argument, Huntindog has provided the GM information that proves beyond a doubt that there are even more HPFP failures at GM, as a percentage of sales, than at Ford. The hard data has spoken and both manufacturers are seeing HPFP failures.

The difference is simple. GM is fixing their problem under warranty. Ford is screwing their customers. Bosch sold both manufacturers the pumps. They are paying for the claims. Why does GM warranty theirs and Ford will not? I suspect the answer is tied to the previous Ford failures at the diesel engine pickup market. Ford is so desperate to have success, they will sacrifice a few unlucky owners to keep the warranty claims rate low. They did not bank on the NHTSA getting involved, GM telling the truth about their issues and subsequently blowing the lid off the coverup.

Bravo to GM...they are taking care of their customers

Shame on Ford...they need some lessons on public relations...again

Regards