Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

I will be the blue team here!

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

NewsW wrote:


It is not just lower pressures, but a different, more complex, and expensive to build pump (CP3).
??? different yes, more complex??? I don't think so. Please explain your comment.

Bosch's public literature confirms that the CP4 pump is less expensive to build than the predecessor CP3, and the CP4 delivers higher pressures.

The CP4 was touted as cheaper to build, and yet did higher pressures.

Again how can this be? The CP4 runs at higher pressures correct? Also does it not have some coating on the internals? This would up the manufacturing cost, or are they building them in Korea with their stiller quality standards.

I, for one, am not authoritatively able to speak to Bosch's manufacturing costs, only relay what they said in public.

Pump is built in Germany.



Retrofitting CP3 is not an option for the manufacturer or individual users.

For the Manufactures yes I agree, for an individual I disagree. We do not have to do the testing, nor do we have to get the emissions certifications you noted below. As for the injectors as long as the injector body is the same a simple swap out is all that is needed

At the minimum level, are the injectors compatible?

Will it require reprogramming?

New wire harnesses?

What about piping from pump to injector?

Will they have to be custom built?

None of these are simple problems at 2,000bars

That is assuming you don't have an emissions problem.

A lower pressure pump is likely to produce much higher particulates and NOx and unburnt hydrocarbons --- and cause unanticipated issues downstream.

Then there is the whole issue of injection shots, timing, spray patterns.

Plain simple drivability, economy, etc.




If the problem is intolerance of common lubricant additives, the problem remains.

And again way would Bosch build a pump that is not compatible to the fuel standards of the Country it is going to be used in? The Car Companies tell a vendor to build me a pump that is compatible to these specs. It is the Vendors job to get it done or walk away from the project.


I stress we have no authoritative data on what the fuel problem is as of yet.

Only good speculation and guesses.

Sounds more like Ford does not want to fight with Bosch and Bosch is most likely denying Fords returns for credit on their pumps and they (Ford) just does not want to fight with them.

I bet before long you are going to see the manufactures going after Bosch. This is their problem (Bosch) but Ford denying their customers valid warranty claims is wrong and shows they have not changed their way of doing business. Ford Quality is Job NONE!!!

Don

We do not know the Bosch contract with Ford, which is likely quite different from the GM contract.

GM ceded to Bosch control over the ECM for the CP 4 pump, making it much harder for anyone to tamper with the fuel injection system.

Ford, on the other hand, retained control, which means that Bosch probably is much more circumscribed in its warranty of the pump.

For marketing reasons, Ford chose not to lock up the ECM tighter, even though they do RECORD what their customers are doing.

Remember --- Bosch knows all about the Navistar fiasco, so they know what land mines to not step on with the willingness of Ford to turn a blind eye to customer tampering with the gear.

Stay tuned... you will know more when I know.



Bosch literature on CP 4:

Bosch Mlilestones in Common Rail wrote:
high-pressure pump. Designed as a
radial-piston pump, the CP4 is leaner,
simpler and more cost-ef? cient than
the CP3, allowing pressures of 1,600
to more than 2,000 bar depending on
the individual version (CP4.1 with one
piston or CP 4.2 with two pistons).
2007 marked the series production
of the ? rst third-generation Common
Rail system with a maximum injection
pressure of 2,000 bar.