Interesting weather fact.

[Orion]

We're visiting family in Ontario, and like the rest of the continental NE, the weather is unseasonably warm. This morning at 730am, the temp was 15C. I just happened to click on Mazatlan's figure, and it was 13C!
Yes that was at the airport, which is often a little cooler, but even Playa Escondido was 15C.
For those of you that are metrically challenged, those figures are 55F and 58F.:)

[briansue]

Are we now wanting to debate global warming.

As I said in my original posts - I am in no way qualified to debate this topic. I know what I have seen and I know what I have read. Scientist have measuring equipment for all kinds of things. They have data. They study and research. But it is still not about weather but someone here tried to put weather and climate change is the same and they are not. When hurricane predictors look at factors such as ocean temperatures they try to figure out what will happen with the weather. That they do not get it right and the predicted hurricanes don't happen does not change the fact that their measuring equipment told them the ocean temperatures are up - that is fact - that the hurricanes did not materialize has to do with other facts. That did not change the temperature of the ocean. They also have data gather from the atmosphere which is done by all kinds of different scientific equipment all over the world. And of course they study the coral for pollutants and can determine cause of death just as a doctor can determine cause of death when a human dies. This is just silliness - that there are still people out there who find unscientific ways to discredit what 97% of the world's experts on the subject agree on. And of course there are still those who think the earth is flat too. True genius. Neil Armstrong never set foot on the moon - all down in a Hollywood studio. Man cannot fly. Thunder is the angry gods. Amazing. We can see pollution and the effects all over yet still they deny it exists.

[daveB110]

MexicoWanderer, enjoy your posts! I camped at Tenacatita only a short distance from Bocca de Iguanas, for the first time in 2003, did most of January and all of February there, still on the Bahia Tenacatita. My journal covered every day in February and I wanted to check that I had the same cold time that you did. I might have missed it, but don't think so. It was often in the low sixties on getting up early in the mornings, but if it goes to 48 F. in the evening I'm thinking, there should have been a downward spike by morning. None. My fifteen or so journals are seldom read now, but reading that one on our first time driving into Mexico, was interesting for me. Thanks for the inspiration to read it.

[moisheh]

Wow: Are we now wanting to debate global warming.

Moisheh

[westernrvparkow]

briansue wrote:

ridiculous claims.

Based on your post we have to assume you have spent many years diving in the Caribbean and have years of log books to substantiate your claim that the temperatures haven't risen. I guess our thermometers and all our friends thermometers are not as accurate as yours. We have also seen the coral dying as the scientists use stakes and rope to mark off specific areas of the reefs to study them and the deterioration. I also have years of video of the same reefs. But I am sure you have much more information than I do. And I am sure you can also dispute with scientific proof the 97% or the world's scientists who also say temps are rising. Note - ocean temps in specific areas are probably similar to weather changes - and again the argument that weather and climate are not the same. When scientists say ocean temps rise they are talking about the entire planet while I am talking about a specific area. The fact that reefs die is reason enough for concern. Note also that scientists make some of their hurricane predictions based on ocean temps and they put that info out every year prior to hurricane season. But don't bother to do any research because you might learn something.

Ocean temperatures at any one location is much more dependent on local conditions rather than "climate change". It is pure fact, that no one can say they personally have experienced climate change due to the temperature at a given location. The reefs you reference could have died from pollution, a cooling trend, a shift in the gulf stream, a storm disturbing the seafloor, military exercises, disease, tourists diving in the area and damaging the coral and who knows what else. Blaming "global warming" or "climate change" is merely an uneducated guess.
And those hurricane forecasts sure have been accurate. I thought the east coast should have been destroyed by monster storms by now. That was the impression the "Global Warming" advocates were conveying, before it became "climate change". If you were to "do any research", you would see that in the last few years the hurricane forecasts have actually been very inaccurate. So either their models or their data is wrong. And if the forecast models or data are wrong, who is to say the climate change models or data are also not accurate.
Accurate temperature records reach back only a couple of hundred years, at best. The earth has been around for several billion years. A two hundred year sample is, by definition, insufficient to make statistically accurate conclusions. I have not been convinced, one way or the other, simply because the data used to draw all these conclusions are sketchy, at best.

[Wm_Elliot]

Please explain previous cooling and warming on the Earth. As stated earlier, where I now sit was once covered with ice 7,800 feet deep. It's presently about 4" deep.
Please... seriously. The alarmists never do. Enlighten me, I yearn to learn.

[briansue]

ridiculous claims.

Based on your post we have to assume you have spent many years diving in the Caribbean and have years of log books to substantiate your claim that the temperatures haven't risen. I guess our thermometers and all our friends thermometers are not as accurate as yours. We have also seen the coral dying as the scientists use stakes and rope to mark off specific areas of the reefs to study them and the deterioration. I also have years of video of the same reefs. But I am sure you have much more information than I do. And I am sure you can also dispute with scientific proof the 97% or the world's scientists who also say temps are rising. Note - ocean temps in specific areas are probably similar to weather changes - and again the argument that weather and climate are not the same. When scientists say ocean temps rise they are talking about the entire planet while I am talking about a specific area. The fact that reefs die is reason enough for concern. Note also that scientists make some of their hurricane predictions based on ocean temps and they put that info out every year prior to hurricane season. But don't bother to do any research because you might learn something.

[westernrvparkow]

briansue wrote:
At this point in time no one should have to try to explain this - it has been said and done many times - and I am certainly not the one to try to do it - but I'll give it a shot.........

The terms global warming and climate change are not weather. The the terms may not be totally separate they are not the same. 97% of the world's scientists and experts on the topic agree - man made pollution is not only causing a hole in the ozone layer but other atmospheric changes that are causing things to happen to this planet that have not happened before. Those who still think this is not a fact need to do some research and delve further into the issue.

Not that many years ago we (Brian & Sue) were SCUBA divers and lived on an island in the Caribbean. Part of our equipment was thermometers to check water temperature on each dive. Divers record temperatures as well as many other facts that occur on each dive in a log book. We saw a noticeable increase in ocean temps over the years. We also saw coral reefs we visited on a regular basis begin to die off due to warmer temperature - coral only lives within a very narrow temperature range and with rapid temp changes it has not had time to adapt. We are not scientist but there have been many scientists who have studied this and observed much the same as we did. Does it matter? Reefs are the hatchery and nursery for many sea creatures - without reefs the oceans die. Among the smallest creatures in the ocean are plankton. They feed many things living in the ocean - the bottom of the food chain. But they also clean the air we breath and provide oxygen - just as trees in the forests etc. Due to rising ocean temps plankton is dying off around the globe. As they die there will be less oxygen - fact - look it up. Many other changes are occurring and folks keep talking about weather. It is not about weather. Why is that so hard to understand?

It is "hard to understand" because people make ridiculous claims. Like " we are scuba divers and have noticed a rise in the sea temperatures personally.". Fact is, the EPA, a climate change advocacy agency, says sea temps have risen an average of .13 degrees per DECADE since 1900. Such a change would be inperceptable to a human. When people preface their arguments with BS claims, many people dismiss the entire argument, with good reason.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Make it simple

A COLD DAY IN A WARM CLIMATE, IS "WEATHER"

[briansue]

At this point in time no one should have to try to explain this - it has been said and done many times - and I am certainly not the one to try to do it - but I'll give it a shot.........

The terms global warming and climate change are not weather. The the terms may not be totally separate they are not the same. 97% of the world's scientists and experts on the topic agree - man made pollution is not only causing a hole in the ozone layer but other atmospheric changes that are causing things to happen to this planet that have not happened before. Those who still think this is not a fact need to do some research and delve further into the issue.

Not that many years ago we (Brian & Sue) were SCUBA divers and lived on an island in the Caribbean. Part of our equipment was thermometers to check water temperature on each dive. Divers record temperatures as well as many other facts that occur on each dive in a log book. We saw a noticeable increase in ocean temps over the years. We also saw coral reefs we visited on a regular basis begin to die off due to warmer temperature - coral only lives within a very narrow temperature range and with rapid temp changes it has not had time to adapt. We are not scientist but there have been many scientists who have studied this and observed much the same as we did. Does it matter? Reefs are the hatchery and nursery for many sea creatures - without reefs the oceans die. Among the smallest creatures in the ocean are plankton. They feed many things living in the ocean - the bottom of the food chain. But they also clean the air we breath and provide oxygen - just as trees in the forests etc. Due to rising ocean temps plankton is dying off around the globe. As they die there will be less oxygen - fact - look it up. Many other changes are occurring and folks keep talking about weather. It is not about weather. Why is that so hard to understand?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Fast & Furious 🙂

Day before yesterday, temperature downtown Mulege, BCS, was forty seven degrees Fahrenheit at 0600. Home on the coast in Michoacan, has been averaging 88F around 3PM and 77F before dawn.

I remember, at La Manzanilla, Jalisco the first week in February 1997 being so warm I lay atop the sheets with the ceiling fan going full blast, windows wide open. The next year to the week, the manager supplied me with three extra blankets for my bed, windows shut tight.

Boca de Iguanas, Feb 2003, standing around a beach campfire at 8PM. This trip I couldn't stand it, I brought a mercury thermometer. Forty eight degrees F. I used a heater.

From Manzanillo south to Tapachula, winter weather is far and away more predictable, especially from Michoacan/Colima.

!982 I was walking the beach on Isla Mujeres, Q.R. in a raincoat at 2PM. Temperature was 56F in a driving rainstorm. Winds to about 35 mph. The whitelegs were screaming their fool head off. "Gawww Damm! Ah paid (xxx dollars) for three days of this?". Wotta hoot, the heat pumps in all the five-star hotels, worked superb for air con, but not worth a **** for heating. The sniping and griping was so pervasive it drove me off the island, and across Mexico to Acapulco. Temp was in the 80's.

Or Creel December 2003. Fifteen degrees with half a foot of snow on the ground. No way was I going to ride a BUS down into the canyon to Batopilas.

Cd Obregon, July 1987, 122F. Sonoyta August 2010 also 122F. That trip at five minutes after midnight, the temp was 102F in Laughlin, Nevada.

I started a caterpillar bulldozer on the Twin Lakes Road, near Bridgeport, CA in December of 1983. Took three hours, one 6KW generator, running four block heaters, and four kerosene 50,000 BTU horizontal heaters. The temp was 29F. MINUS.

The very coldest I ever experienced on the coast of Michoacan was 64F in April of 2006. The gente were begging for blankets. The girls had my 4" thick comforter and they were wrapped up in it like a Cuban cigar. Jesus and Brenda showered using my hot water heater for a week.

Nothing surprises me any longer. Not 69F driving rainstorms in Michoacan, or morning ice on the windshield in San Cristobal de Las Casas.

Regarding my remark about the southern, Pacific coast being "reliably warm". Sometimes it gets carried away with itself and tourists find themselves enduring 92F - 80F days in January.

Regardless, this is my home, and being prepared for any kind of weather makes it enjoyable, regardless of Weather Porn, or Time Share Weather Paradise Speak.

EDIT WEATHER PORN EDIT WEATHER PORN EDIT WEATHER PORN

(A cut & Paste Newspaper Article) WARNING GRAPHIC USELESS DETAILS!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some readers have complained about my article yesterday re the snowstorm in Mexico, saying snowfall is “normal” in Chihuahua at this time of year.

But I’m thinking that the biggest snow storm in 55 years is not exactly normal. Besides, isn’t snowfall supposed to be a thing of the past?

29 Dec 2015 – Some roads remained closed in northern Mexico on Monday after the biggest snow storm in more than half a century blanketed parts of the region, authorities said.

The storm dumped up to 30 cm (12 inches) of snow on 32 towns across the state, closed 17 roads, and forced closure of the Ciudad Juarez airport.

“It’s the most intense snowfall in the last 55 years,” Efren Matamoros, the civil protection director in the border city of Ciudad Juarez, told AFP.

Meanwhile, temperatures plummeted to minus-18 Celsius (zero Fahrenheit).

[daveB110]

About ten years ago, or less, we had reports that Ontario golfers were out in force...in December that year. I note that now, on this latest warm autumn, it has all ended and the cold and the snow, have returned for you.

The winter of 1968- 1969 was a cold one in western Canada. Calgary, Alberta had a full month of minus 30 F.as the high temperature. A trip to Hawaii out of Vancouver showed 15 Degrees F. on leaving mid-January, arriving Honolulu at 58 Degrees F., a bad cold spell for them and everyone seen there then were bundled up in anything warm. Still snow on the sidewalks of Vancouver when I returned in early February.

Our little coastal town, SW B.C., has not seen snow for nearly two years. But I recall a similar happening in the mid-seventies. But right now, our first winter staying here in 13 years, it's mostly clear and an early morning 29 degrees F., and likely will snow a little in a couple of days time. It should quickly melt and be gone in a day or two. We've been thinking about Mexico, maybe next year.

I always remember the stories of the Vikings establishing themselves in Greenland, a thousand years ago. It must have been warmer then.

[silversand]

Mexico Wanderer wrote:
Oooooooo Canada was a tropical swamp in prehistoric times. That was before of course, thick glaciers covered much of the land...

...looking at the paleoclimate record timeline (going back ~ 500 million years), there were two mega-warming periods planet-wide: 1 roughly 460 million years ago; and 1 roughly 90 million years ago (the proxy data for these records is sea level rise events, and other more complex stuff like continental movement/shape tectonics).

Of course, there were ~10 hiccup warming events (relatively minor) over the same 500 million year span. If you look at what caused the most recent Earth cooling event, we could actually blame it on Mexico, 65 million years ago :B. As an enormous asteroid struck the Yucatan, largely causing the extinction of roughly 70% of all species living on this planet, and plunging Earth into a global cooling phase (Alvarez et al, 1980). We're into the bottom of the 3rd cooling event now after the Yucatan event. We're actually coming out of the 3rd cooling event (fast and furious).

Before the 65 million year ago event, there was another mass extinction/dramatic climate change 250 million years ago. This was probably the biggest cooling event the Earth has ever experienced over the past half a billion years...

I don't think that there exists enough proxy data for science to infer any strong "climate record" before half a billion years ago.

[coloradotallman]

Too cold in Mazatlan? Come down to Huatulco. Been 30 every day and 25 every night for the past week.

[Wm_Elliot]

delete

[AJBert]

And here I am with 2 feet of snow outside at a balmy 4 degrees F! Winter has come much earlier than last year with much more snow. The ski resorts aren't complaining in the least and neither am I.

I spent way too much of my life in areas that didn't have real "four seasons" being as I spent 26 years in the Navy, all at sea level. I was born and raised here in CO and couldn't wait to get back.

Last year was a somewhat mild winter but the spring and summer were pretty wet. Great for vegetation and also for hunting in the fall. This year might not be so great for the hunting next year as I hope we don't have a large winter kill.

As has been stated, I agree that Mother Nature has her own plan and mankind doesn't fit into that plan. As I recall, back in the 70's there was talk of we were entering into the next Ice Age.