Mexico toll road discussion?

[briansue]

I don't want to open a can of worms but there was a story recently about the Indiana Toll Road going broke and it brought up my thoughts about the toll roads in Mexico . . .

Indiana Toll Road Operator Files for Bankruptcy
Governor Says 'Hoosiers Can Expect Business as Usual' on Main Artery Through State

http://online.wsj.com/articles/indiana-toll-road-operator-files-for-bankruptcy-1411395866

Mexico autopistas or “cuotas” listed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexican_autopistas

I know there have been posts about the roads in Mexico in the past. I do know that many of the toll roads in Mexico are privately owned or operated. I have always wondered why the tolls seem to be very high. We see many of these toll roads have very little traffic while the old free roads may still be congested. My theory is that they charge too much and if they lowered the fees maybe more people would use the roads.

When I was a truck driver back in the 70s and 80s I would avoid toll roads if I could. If there was a different route that did not change my total miles too much I would take the cheaper way. Many others do the same. Indiana has long been a state to avoid. I am sure there are roads in Mexico that many avoid due to high toll rates. EXAMPLE in IN would be - I-80/90 is the toll road - but if going coast to coast you can also take I-70 depending on start/finish of the trip. I know people on this forum who take the free roads rather than the toll roads in Mexico because they know how to do it within a reasonable time/miles frame compared to toll roads - but we do no all know for sure how to do this. Tolls roads are usually good and fast but we think the tolls are out of line with the rest of the economics of Mexico.

I can find lists of all the toll roads but not sure how to find who might be in charge or responsible of each individual road. Yes I know that Gov't agencies such as CAPUFE and SCT have overall say in all roads but what I wonder is which ones are private and who the private operators are? And of course - why don't they charge a more reasonable fee so more people will use the roads?

[navegator]

I do not know if you have ever been out in the sierras, way out where the people do not speak spanish at all and there is really no money.

They barter, trade maiz for calabazas, frijoles for chiles, they do not use money.

The last thing that I would sugest or want is a revolucion, that is overthrowing of the constitutional government, I will leave that to the Zapatistas and so forth.

Your original question was why don't they lower the toll road priceses and have more people use the carreteras de cobro, that will never happen, there are to many politicos and other interested parties that receive money under the table (mordida) for that to take place, once the politicos get hold of a lucrative position where they recive a sum of money for not doing anything (it is called in Mexico a HUESO, bone) they do not let it go, ergo it is a "status quo" and nothing will really change much, maybe in time some things will change but not to fast, we will not see them.

navegator

[briansue]

what you are suggesting is a revoution

I didn't suggest anything. I asked a question. The links in my last post at least somewhat answers my question. Next question - how do you spend money if you have no money and no credit? Answer - you don't.

[navegator]

With all due respect briansue:

You are asking for answers with the thinking of a gringo.

The fact is that the cuotas are not going to go down, the price of gasoline is not going to go down, the price of basic staples is not going to go down, the only thing that is going to happen is that the dollar is going to be harder for the Mexicans to buy, probablly by this time next year it will be 14.00+ pesos or more, the price of fuel in the States is dropping and that will not happen in Mexico the price of gasoline will stay at about the current price.

You have to realize that in Mexico there are to many vested interests behind all of the infrastructure on the toll roads and other government sanctioned projects, to much graft and corruption and to many hands to grease in MORDIDAS for actual change, what you are suggesting is a revoution, and that will not happen in our life time, the population has not been oppresed enough for that to happen.

Hay que vivir la vida loca!

navegator

[briansue]

Still seeking answers I found some online articles that may be related Some of these are current and some go back to the 90s. There is lot more out there - and much of it is opinion - and some facts too. Anyone interested can learn about the road building boom in Mexico and some of the roads we may see in the future.

Are private toll roads a losing idea?

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea


Private investment in Mexico

http://www.worldfinance.com/inward-investment/americas/private-investment-in-mexico


Privatization in Mexico is a road to nowhere

http://qz.com/113017/privatization-in-mexico-is-a-road-to-nowhere


MEXICO Government bails out half its toll companies

http://tollroadsnews.com/news/mexico-government-bails-out-half-its-toll-companies


Mexico announces new transportation and telecommunications investment program

http://www.dlapiper.com/en/us/insights/publications/2013/07/mexico-announces-new-transportation-and-telecomm__


MEXICO INFRA-STRUCTURE: Laying tracks for investors

http://www.emergingmarkets.org/Article/3323832/MEXICO-INFRA-STRUCTURE-Laying-tracks-for-investors.html


Crumbling U.S. Fix Seen in Trillions of Dollars of Global Money

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/crumbling-us-fix-seen-in-trillions-of-dollars-of-global-money/ar-AA6QWza

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Shhh I hear a hall monitor whistle. You seek an answer that agrees with you. You have the rest if your life to try and find it. I am superior to no one. I am vastly inferior to those folks who do not appraise common sense. End of my part of the discussion - let the snipe hunt continue but many lurkers are now cognizant there is no answer to your question.

Did you even bother to read the PDF? The only document in existence that deals with part of your query? I thought not...

[briansue]

Your brilliance and superiority to all mankind continues to amaze and astound us all.......NOT.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

http://www.sct.gob.mx/fileadmin/DireccionesGrales/DGDC/Tramites/manual.pdf

You can break this down and trace it tramite por tramite. Most of it os NOT online so you will have to telephone and ask. Contract information about land acquisition is IMPOSSIBLE to find even in person. Tarifas de cuota are arrived at through negotiation between fiduciaries, SCT, SHCP, and the concessionaire.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

ave REFORMA Mexico. Go have a ball. I do not toot my horn, my answers yank the chain of people who will never find answers because they never BOTHER TO look in Mexico. When is the last time you looked briansue? For any answer to any officialdom question in Mexico. Have any long chats with SSP tentientes? Aduaneros? Hacienda? Of course not. The system has an official face and a closed operating structure. You'd think you'd have figured that out by now. With all that experience. And that does NOT amaze me.

[briansue]

Anyone who comes to Mexico with an "ought-To-Be" rather than a "Is" sense of perspective is going to leave disillusioned, disappointed, angry, frustrated and confused.

Another very interesting comment. I have been visiting Mexico since 1971. My Aunt lived there for 35 starting in 1956. My Mother spent her winters there after retirement. My sister owned a house there. For the past 8 years we have had the great pleasure of spending our winters traveling all over Mexico. And yet every time we go we are "disillusioned, disappointed, angry, frustrated and confused". We must be out of our minds for returning to a place we are told we have such total disrespect for!!!.

I have been reading the MEXICOWANDERER posts for years and it never ceases to amaze how far off topic they can get - how insulting - how they like to toot the horn of the writer who obviously is the world's foremost authority on all things Mexico. Seems there is a great need to find self importance by denigrating everyone else who posts here.

I asked a question - I thought a simple question - wondering if anyone had facts about toll roads in Mexico. No facts seem to exists. Yet the rants continue. I guess some people have no lives other than getting on forums and posting nonsense in an attempt to feel better about themselves. If you cannot produce facts and reference those facts by posting web addresses to where we can learn more then these rants are nothing more than opinion and speculation and hold little validity.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Your concerns are noble. The cost of tolls will fall right after gobernacion chops the price of comistibles to an affordable level.

Toll roads get refinanced over and over and over and over and over and over and over (is that enough overs?) again. They win tax credit and repamyent concessions from gobernacion and SHCP.

Of course there would be more customers with more traffic. But this is Mexico. They get it into their head that whatever the have is worth so much money and they will freakin' DIE before they would lower the price. No es la costumbre.

Anyone who comes to Mexico with an "ought-To-Be" rather than a "Is" sense of perspective is going to leave disillusioned, disappointed, angry, frustrated and confused. Probably the # 1 reason for expatriates to bail-out after a few years. Mexicanos have a joke "Ay caray! Here come some gringos with a million questions". This says volumes about the difference in cultures.

[briansue]

Building and maintaining a road costs a fortune. Not to compare the US and Mexico but I have been on the Indiana toll road many times. You get a ticket when you get on and when you exit you put the ticket in a slot and it tells you how much to pay. If you do not have correct change you put you $20 bill in the machine and it gives change in metal dollars. No toll collection people to pay salaries. If we cross the state to the end there are maybe 10 lanes of toll booths with traffic backed up quite ways. Thousands of cars and trucks and RVs an hour. And they are going broke! The road is BILLIONS in debt. I am sure costs in Mexico are probably lower. But roads are not cheap. To pay for them with tolls you need a lot of customers. The road in Indiana has at least 20 times (probably more) the traffic we see on many toll roads in Mexico - and in IN they say it is fewer vehicles using the road that is leading to bankruptcy. So we can all speculate and offer opinions but things don't seem to add up - and I do fully realize and am fully aware that many things in Mexico do not add up - that is not meant to be criticism - just a comment. There well may be no answer to any of this. But it might be interesting to see if they did lower the tolls (I know they probably won't) if more people would use the roads - and that more Mexican people could afford to use these roads. My concern is the high cost of living being inflicted on the people of Mexico.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Sort of a lot of expenses have to come off the top. Seguros, mantimientos. sueldos, impuestos, tramites.

[tepetapan]

I have been thinking about this post and autopistas. Numbers are missing and therefore facts are missing. I tried to put some numbers together in my mind.
When ever I pull up to a tollbooth it seems there are one or two cars in front of me, heading down the road. When leaving and checking my rear view mirror, it seems the same, one or two cars approaching the toll booth.
To make the numbers easy, I guess at one car per minute. Say for easy thinking the toll is 100 pesos. that is 6000 pesos per hour. Now say this flow lasts 10 hours a day, afterwhich who knows. That makes it 60,000 pesos a day.
this comes out to 21,900,000 pesos a year. And after a 30 year contract that amount is 657,000,000 pesos. Odds are, in my mind, they make double or triple that over thirty years. If so, there is no reason to ever lower the rate.
Now think about I 294 in Chicago. at 50 cents a car and 50 cars a minute.

[navegator]

You keep trying to make sense of something that makes no sense at all.

As tepetapan stated we do not have any tangible facts, maybe next time you are in Mexico City you can pop down to SCT officess and ask for some numbers, provided you do not get arrested for being a loco gringo.

I think we better drop this tread since it seems to be total dead end.

navegator