I don't want to open a can of worms but there was a story recently about the Indiana Toll Road going broke and it brought up my thoughts about the toll roads in Mexico . . . Indiana Toll Road Operator Files for BankruptcyGovernor Says 'Hoosiers Can Expect Business as Usual' on Main Artery Through Statehttp://online.wsj.com/articles/indiana-toll-road-operator-files-for-bankruptcy-1411395866 Mexico autopistas or “cuotas” listed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexican_autopistas I know there have been posts about the roads in Mexico in the past. I do know that many of the toll roads in Mexico are privately owned or operated. I have always wondered why the tolls seem to be very high. We see many of these toll roads have very little traffic while the old free roads may still be congested. My theory is that they charge too much and if they lowered the fees maybe more people would use the roads. When I was a truck driver back in the 70s and 80s I would avoid toll roads if I could. If there was a different route that did not change my total miles too much I would take the cheaper way. Many others do the same. Indiana has long been a state to avoid. I am sure there are roads in Mexico that many avoid due to high toll rates. EXAMPLE in IN would be - I-80/90 is the toll road - but if going coast to coast you can also take I-70 depending on start/finish of the trip. I know people on this forum who take the free roads rather than the toll roads in Mexico because they know how to do it within a reasonable time/miles frame compared to toll roads - but we do no all know for sure how to do this. Tolls roads are usually good and fast but we think the tolls are out of line with the rest of the economics of Mexico. I can find lists of all the toll roads but not sure how to find who might be in charge or responsible of each individual road. Yes I know that Gov't agencies such as CAPUFE and SCT have overall say in all roads but what I wonder is which ones are private and who the private operators are? And of course - why don't they charge a more reasonable fee so more people will use the roads?

briansue wrote: why don't they charge a more reasonable fee so more people will use the roads?I'll follow this thread with interest since I hope to do some RVing down there in future!Per above, and without knowing anything at all about how such rates are established in Mexico:Since the roads wear out mostly due to the amount of traffic over them, could it be that there's no real incentive to lower rates? Maybe they're just biding their time until folks get good and sick of the congestion on/deterioration of cheaper routes-?

People pay the high tolls on Mexican roads because they believe they are safer (patrolled) and in better condition than the libres. I know people who took libres south last year and regretted the extra time it took due to poor road condition as well as the beating their RV took. They took the cuota going back north.Personally I believe the building and maintenance of public roads should be a function of government rather than a for profit enterprise

darbone85737 wrote:People pay the high tolls on Mexican roads because they believe they are safer (patrolled) and in better condition than the libres. I know people who took libres south last year and regretted the extra time it took due to poor road condition as well as the beating their RV took. They took the cuota going back north.Personally I believe the building and maintenance of public roads should be a function of government rather than a for profit enterpriseWell, for sure there are less (read no) topes on the toll roads. Roads like pelenque to Can Cristobal, Huatulco to Acapulco, just two examples. Very tough on vehicles. We have done our share of both but the roads are definetly quicker,,,if that's your objective.

Since the roads wear out mostly due to the amount of traffic over them, could it be that there's no real incentive to lower rates? Maybe they're just biding their time until folks get good and sick of the congestion on/deterioration of cheaper routes-? I have wondered and considered that. But if not enough people use the roads they collect very few tolls and cannot possibly make any money. It is my understanding that the companies who contract to build and run these roads have something like a 25 or 30 year contract - meaning the time they have to get any return on their investment in these roads is limited. I read the article on the IN road and they say they can't make money because fewer vehicles use the road - they are billions in debt and going bankrupt. I am not sure how any of this works but I do know it costs a lot of money to build and maintain roads. If tolls are supposed to pay for the roads and few people can afford or are willing to use these roads they will go broke. How do you get people to use the roads or buy any product you are selling? Price it according to what it is worth to the consumer. If the public does not use the road it could be that it is not worth it to them - which could mean they charge too much. And yes, I do wonder if more traffic would not mean more repairs. Seems there must be a better way.

Personally I believe the building and maintenance of public roads should be a function of government rather than a for profit enterprise By government of course you mean taxpayers. Not everyone seems willing to pay for roads - or much of anything else - anymore. They have been turning roads over to private companies all over the world because they say they can do a better job. I have been told that the taxes we pay on fuel when we buy gasoline or diesel is supposed to be used to pay for roads and bridges. But if a private company is charging tolls on the road then do they still get tax dollars too? I really am just not clear on how this works in either country. I once heard that since the Gov't in Mexico owns the oil company the income from this accounts for up to 45% of the budget of Mexico. So are the tolls in Mexico supposed to totally go for building roads and maintaining them or do they also get money from the Gov't? And if the same situation is happening in Mexico that is happening in IN then these companies probably will not be able to maintain the roads if they do not get Gov't money. I think there are also tolls being charged on roads and bridges that are owned and operated by the Gov't in both Mexico and the US. But I do not know the facts so am trying to get a discussion going to see if anyone else is interested and if anyone else has more knowledge on this topic.

Mexico toll road discussion? | Good Sam Community

navegator
Explorer
Oct 16, 2014
I do not know if you have ever been out in the sierras, way out where the people do not speak spanish at all and there is really no money.

They barter, trade maiz for calabazas, frijoles for chiles, they do not use money.

The last thing that I would sugest or want is a revolucion, that is overthrowing of the constitutional government, I will leave that to the Zapatistas and so forth.

Your original question was why don't they lower the toll road priceses and have more people use the carreteras de cobro, that will never happen, there are to many politicos and other interested parties that receive money under the table (mordida) for that to take place, once the politicos get hold of a lucrative position where they recive a sum of money for not doing anything (it is called in Mexico a HUESO, bone) they do not let it go, ergo it is a "status quo" and nothing will really change much, maybe in time some things will change but not to fast, we will not see them.

navegator
briansue
Explorer
Oct 16, 2014
what you are suggesting is a revoution

I didn't suggest anything. I asked a question. The links in my last post at least somewhat answers my question. Next question - how do you spend money if you have no money and no credit? Answer - you don't.
navegator
Explorer
Oct 16, 2014
With all due respect briansue:

You are asking for answers with the thinking of a gringo.

The fact is that the cuotas are not going to go down, the price of gasoline is not going to go down, the price of basic staples is not going to go down, the only thing that is going to happen is that the dollar is going to be harder for the Mexicans to buy, probablly by this time next year it will be 14.00+ pesos or more, the price of fuel in the States is dropping and that will not happen in Mexico the price of gasoline will stay at about the current price.

You have to realize that in Mexico there are to many vested interests behind all of the infrastructure on the toll roads and other government sanctioned projects, to much graft and corruption and to many hands to grease in MORDIDAS for actual change, what you are suggesting is a revoution, and that will not happen in our life time, the population has not been oppresed enough for that to happen.

Hay que vivir la vida loca!

navegator
briansue
Explorer
Oct 15, 2014
Still seeking answers I found some online articles that may be related Some of these are current and some go back to the 90s. There is lot more out there - and much of it is opinion - and some facts too. Anyone interested can learn about the road building boom in Mexico and some of the roads we may see in the future.

Are private toll roads a losing idea?

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea

Private investment in Mexico

http://www.worldfinance.com/inward-investment/americas/private-investment-in-mexico

Privatization in Mexico is a road to nowhere

http://qz.com/113017/privatization-in-mexico-is-a-road-to-nowhere

MEXICO Government bails out half its toll companies

http://tollroadsnews.com/news/mexico-government-bails-out-half-its-toll-companies

Mexico announces new transportation and telecommunications investment program

http://www.dlapiper.com/en/us/insights/publications/2013/07/mexico-announces-new-transportation-and-telecomm__

MEXICO INFRA-STRUCTURE: Laying tracks for investors

http://www.emergingmarkets.org/Article/3323832/MEXICO-INFRA-STRUCTURE-Laying-tracks-for-investors.html

Crumbling U.S. Fix Seen in Trillions of Dollars of Global Money

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/crumbling-us-fix-seen-in-trillions-of-dollars-of-global-money/ar-AA6QWza
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 09, 2014
Shhh I hear a hall monitor whistle. You seek an answer that agrees with you. You have the rest if your life to try and find it. I am superior to no one. I am vastly inferior to those folks who do not appraise common sense. End of my part of the discussion - let the snipe hunt continue but many lurkers are now cognizant there is no answer to your question.

Did you even bother to read the PDF? The only document in existence that deals with part of your query? I thought not...
briansue
Explorer
Oct 08, 2014
Your brilliance and superiority to all mankind continues to amaze and astound us all.......NOT.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 08, 2014
http://www.sct.gob.mx/fileadmin/DireccionesGrales/DGDC/Tramites/manual.pdf

You can break this down and trace it tramite por tramite. Most of it os NOT online so you will have to telephone and ask. Contract information about land acquisition is IMPOSSIBLE to find even in person. Tarifas de cuota are arrived at through negotiation between fiduciaries, SCT, SHCP, and the concessionaire.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 08, 2014
ave REFORMA Mexico. Go have a ball. I do not toot my horn, my answers yank the chain of people who will never find answers because they never BOTHER TO look in Mexico. When is the last time you looked briansue? For any answer to any officialdom question in Mexico. Have any long chats with SSP tentientes? Aduaneros? Hacienda? Of course not. The system has an official face and a closed operating structure. You'd think you'd have figured that out by now. With all that experience. And that does NOT amaze me.
briansue
Explorer
Oct 07, 2014
Anyone who comes to Mexico with an "ought-To-Be" rather than a "Is" sense of perspective is going to leave disillusioned, disappointed, angry, frustrated and confused.

Another very interesting comment. I have been visiting Mexico since 1971. My Aunt lived there for 35 starting in 1956. My Mother spent her winters there after retirement. My sister owned a house there. For the past 8 years we have had the great pleasure of spending our winters traveling all over Mexico. And yet every time we go we are "disillusioned, disappointed, angry, frustrated and confused". We must be out of our minds for returning to a place we are told we have such total disrespect for!!!.

I have been reading the MEXICOWANDERER posts for years and it never ceases to amaze how far off topic they can get - how insulting - how they like to toot the horn of the writer who obviously is the world's foremost authority on all things Mexico. Seems there is a great need to find self importance by denigrating everyone else who posts here.

I asked a question - I thought a simple question - wondering if anyone had facts about toll roads in Mexico. No facts seem to exists. Yet the rants continue. I guess some people have no lives other than getting on forums and posting nonsense in an attempt to feel better about themselves. If you cannot produce facts and reference those facts by posting web addresses to where we can learn more then these rants are nothing more than opinion and speculation and hold little validity.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 05, 2014
Your concerns are noble. The cost of tolls will fall right after gobernacion chops the price of comistibles to an affordable level.

Toll roads get refinanced over and over and over and over and over and over and over (is that enough overs?) again. They win tax credit and repamyent concessions from gobernacion and SHCP.

Of course there would be more customers with more traffic. But this is Mexico. They get it into their head that whatever the have is worth so much money and they will freakin' DIE before they would lower the price. No es la costumbre.

Anyone who comes to Mexico with an "ought-To-Be" rather than a "Is" sense of perspective is going to leave disillusioned, disappointed, angry, frustrated and confused. Probably the # 1 reason for expatriates to bail-out after a few years. Mexicanos have a joke "Ay caray! Here come some gringos with a million questions". This says volumes about the difference in cultures.

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