Bears and garbage

[campigloo]

Hi all
We are taking our first trip to northern Canada and Alaska this year. We plan on doing some boondocking, not sure how much but we want to be prepared. I’ve seen and thought of several different contraptions to deter Yogie and his buddies but not sure what to use. One of the more intriguing was soaking a rag or something in pine-sol to help deter them from your garbage. I will either build a box or buy an aluminum tool box for storage that will be kept in the bed of the truck. Also thought about spraying it around the door and large windows of the camper. Am I on the right track or are you rolling your eyes and shaking your head? Need a little help please.
Thanks!

[ppine]

The Park Service hates dogs. They make up all kinds of stories. I have herding dogs, that are protective. They have great eyes, ears and noses and give me a heads up if there are any bears around. They are much braver if there are at least two of them. Three is even better.

[profdant139]

ppine, you must have some big brave dogs! I've been told by a ranger in Glacier NP (US) that dogs can be a real problem -- they encounter the grizzly, the grizzly gets annoyed, the dog retreats, the bear chases the dog, and the dog runs back to its owner, bringing the bear with it!

Maybe we could train your dogs to guard the garbage??

[ppine]

Although I have never used one, bear cannisters are a good idea. In the Barren Grounds in the North above treeline, the common technique is to put food under canoes and put a lot of pots and pans on top to make racquet if a bear gets into the food supply. On a long trip in the bush, losing part of your food is a serious problem. I like to have dogs around as a first line of defense. My dogs have chased bears out of camp many times over the years.

[crosscheck]

profdant139 wrote:
When the bears are taller than the trees, that is a time to worry! 😉

The good thing about camping in the BC/Yukon/Alaska sub or alpine area where the trees are small or non existant is that there are no black bears.

Can anyone tell us why this also could be a bad thing? The answer rhymes with fizz. Yes, the blacks can't compete with the big fellas at the top of the food chain.

Dave

[profdant139]

When the bears are taller than the trees, that is a time to worry! 😉

[crosscheck]

profdant139 wrote:
996, in Yosemite Valley, you are (I am sure) right. Also, there are bear boxes -- no need to hang 'em up, and campground bears are like Yogi -- smarter than the average bear.

But I still have not heard a good alternative to the hanging method when you are boondocked for several days far from campgrounds and dumpsters. And folks who are more experienced than I am still use the hanging method. So I am going to stick to that device, only when it is absolutely necessary, until someone comes up with a better system.

Good observations from 996 on "human habituated bears" in very busy places like Yosemite and other NP's. The drive to secure food so they can survive is one if not the most important "instincts" that wild animals have. They learn quickly over time, to associate food with people and although I have not heard of bears breaking lines to get at food caches, I am sure over time, they would learn this technique.

We have been lucky over the years, to be in truly wilderness areas backpacking/canoeing etc., where the wild life seldom comes in contact with people so haven't learned these food stealing methods.

In Kluane NP in the Yukon, it is by law that backpackers carry their food in bear proof containers. There is a large grizzly population in the park and very few trees to hang your food so the tree hanging method will not work. Also, by law, no firearms.

Also, much of the low arctic and alpine areas of the USA and Canada have no trees so again, the tree hanging method will not work.

When we were on a long through hike in BC and Alberta in the Rockies that took us above tree line almost every day, there were times when we camped where there were no trees. Grizzlies were around. Had to cache food aways away from camp under the largest rocks that I could roll over on the food bags. Grizzlies could probably move them but from our tent, we would be able to hear the commotion and activate bear bangers to try and scare them off. Luckily, it never happened.

As profdant139 has said, if there are trees, the hanging method is still the best.

Dave

[profdant139]

996, in Yosemite Valley, you are (I am sure) right. Also, there are bear boxes -- no need to hang 'em up, and campground bears are like Yogi -- smarter than the average bear.

But I still have not heard a good alternative to the hanging method when you are boondocked for several days far from campgrounds and dumpsters. And folks who are more experienced than I am still use the hanging method. So I am going to stick to that device, only when it is absolutely necessary, until someone comes up with a better system.

[996Pilot]

profdant139 wrote:
ppine, what do YOU do with your garbage when you are boondocking for several days in bear country? I'm open to suggestions -- I'm the guy in the photo!

A quick Google search shows that this is the preferred method when you absolutely have to have a place for garbage:

"Suspend food and garbage in duffel bags, stuff sacks, or sealed plastic bags at least 12-15 feet (3.6 - 4.5 meters) above the ground and at least 8 feet (2.4 meters) from the tree trunk. The bags should hang from a point where the tree can still support them but bear cubs and other critters will have difficulty reaching them. Make sure the bags cannot be reached from the ground, either."

So I am not the only fool who sets out bear bait, I guess. (This was published by Princeton University. You know how fierce the bears are in New Jersey, of course.)

We quit using that hanging method decades ago in Yosemite (pHD bears) because the bears would just climb the tree and take a casual swipe at the rope to snap/cut the rope. Bears would look for things hanging and spend whatever time it took to get at it. It was more disconcerting to have a bear 15-25 feet from camp working for an hour (and getting frustrated) to get at something hanging. Waiting for bears to leave the area sucks.

[profdant139]

Dave, thanks for the tip on the second rope -- that will help us get more altitude when the trees are smaller!

[ppine]

I have had lots of problems with bears in my career working outdoors. Most of them were in the Alaska bush near salmon streams and in a mining camp where we had to shoot one.

I used to run into bears often in National Parks prior to about 1980 when they (NPS) changed their garbage management system. I had a consulting job in Yosemite for a couple of weeks. Bears walked past the bus stop at night, and showed up in our backcountry camps often. When I stayed at Curry Cabins there was the same bear in the dumpster every morning on my way to breakfast. After awhile he knew my voice and did not even look up.

I have encountered over 100 bears in the wild, but most of them were before about 1990. The problem bears at Lake Tahoe get air lifted to the range of mountains behind my house.

[crosscheck]

Hanging your food/trash in bear country is a good idea as shown by profdant139. If I can add a few pointers after a long time backpacker/wilderness canoer in northern BC/Yukon.

1) If you have large trees with large branches then the 1 rope system works well. If you are in the sub alpine or northern latitudes where the trees/branches are smaller, the 2 rope system works best. Throw weighted end of rope tied to carabiner, attached to leatherman,etc, over branch. Let drop to ground. Remove Leatherman. Attach packs/bags to carabiner. Attach second rope(tied to second carabiner) to first carabiner. Pull up packs/bags to well above human height and tie to first tree. Take second rope to adjoining tree. Pull packs/bags away from first tree until well away from bears reach. Attach rope to second tree. Make sure your strong, thin, nylon ropes are long enough.

2) I have had personal experience with ravens, crows, Canada jays, etc. pecking holes in the nylon, canvas, etc when I was young and foolish, so now almost everything, especially food, goes into steel mesh bags.

Dave

[starcraft69]

profdant139 wrote:
When boondocking for several days in bear country, this method has worked for us -- suspend a bag of garbage far above ground, and far from the tree trunk, and far from the branch:


Click For Full-Size Image.

If we did not do that, we'd have a big bag of garbage inside the trailer. Not a great aroma. And we can't put it into the truck bed -- the bears would tear up the truck.

We have been doing this for 30 years in the back country and just plain ol camping in the woods. Never had a bear problem in 30 years

[OLYLEN]

You have not lived until in Denali park at Teklanika CG sit down to dinner eating a steak fresh off the grill, still at 400 degrees and an over zealous CG host pounds not knock pounds on you door to put your grill away. Many boondocking, kind of developed CG's in bear country have bear box's to store your stuff in. Just use your head don't sleep with a cooked steak or bacon. Don't wash in bacon grease, unless you can out run a bear.

LEN

[packnrat]

i burn burnables. take out all the non burnables. nothing to attract a bear to my camp.
inside i wash everything well. NO food outside of sealed containers. and i let others cook up the bacon. ??