National Park and National Forests Bummer

Great responses. And as to us rich seniors, I tent camp and now have an 8' cargo trailer I've made a few improvements to. I love to camp, love to travel and this works on a limited income. My KISS program(keep it simple stupid) allows me to enjoy restaurants and amenities of the area.

dewey02 wrote:
Very likely, if the concessionaire program did not exist, or if no concessioners bid on a contract because it wouldn't be profitable to run a business at that campground, then many campgrounds would be closed and not available for our use, because the USFS, BLM, NPS or other agencies simply don't have the staff or resources to keep every campground open.

This is not a recent program. If you research the history of the national parks, you will find that many of the iconic lodges in the most popular parks were not only operated from their construction by private contractors, but built by those companies. The first of those were often railroads and local ranchers.

Just a few examples are Yellowstone, Glacier, and Yosemite. The Yellowstone Park Company was primarily owned by the Northern Pacific Railroad. The Glacier Park Lodge in East Glacier was built and operated by the Great Northern Railroad. And the Ahwahnee Hotel (now named "Majestic Yosemite Hotel") in Yosemite was built and operated by two families who originally lived on ranches in Yosemite Valley.

So, we might not have many facilities in the parks at all if "concessionaires" hadn't popularized them from the late 1800's through the 1920's.

PS--I have a Senior Pass and use it constantly, with absolutely no second thoughts. And I stay in COE campgrounds whenever I am near one because they are the nicest facilities and best prices anywhere. IMHO, they are nicer than any private RV "resort" I have ever stayed in!

dewey02 - thanks for your insight and information!

Not questioning the validity of the Senior pass. I have mine and happily use it whenever I can. Just trying to provide info on how the program came about and the realities of the concessionaire program.

Sure, I would like to have everything I want, and a 50% discount everywhere would be great. But I'm glad I get to use the pass where I can, and I understand that everything is not as simple as saying "I want this, so it should be that way."

Very likely, if the concessionaire program did not exist, or if no concessioners bid on a contract because it wouldn't be profitable to run a business at that campground, then many campgrounds would be closed and not available for our use, because the USFS, BLM, NPS or other agencies simply don't have the staff or resources to keep every campground open. Or they may stay open, but at a much reduced service level, with less trash pickup, toilet cleaning, patrol, rule enforcement, etc.

And yet, many concession-run campgrounds do honor the discount when they can afford to do so.

Again, it is easy to say "I want This or that" but there are always trade offs with any decision.

I paid taxes for over 40 years, never was on any sort of welfare program, and thus the senior discount is a tiny repayment on that.

Senior Discount makes sense to me.

JM2¢ ~~ YMMV

dave54 wrote:
The Senior discount probably made sense at one time.

As I look at the average regulars on this and other RV forums, I wonder if it still does
.
If retired and can afford to RV, we as a group are probably above average income, and could afford to pay the regular fee. Certainly more able to pay the fee than a young struggling family with kids.

However, I did not write the laws. I just use them to my advantage. I have no qualms about using every discount offered me.

Seniors in general ... including all who want to and can work out some way to ... go camping probably on average don't "have as much disposable income day-in day-out" as working folks.

Way back when, as today, I suspect that the senior discount into our public lands was/is a fitting reward from our society to it's seniors. After all, seniors have paid into our tax system longer than the younger folks - so why not some slack being cut for seniors expense-wise when taking advantage of the fruits of those taxes.

It should not be the case that the senior discount doesn't apply if certain concessionaires - who just happen to be contracted to replace government personnel in running certain public campgrounds - aren't contract bound to honor the discounts. The discounts established by some government entity years ago for seniors should still apply regardless of today's contracts.

This is especially the case for us folks who don't need hookups in non-boondock public campgrounds. I for one can use my money resources in plenty of other places other than paying "working folk size" charges for non-hookup, non-boondock, public camping spots.

The Senior discount probably made sense at one time.

As I look at the average regulars on this and other RV forums, I wonder if it still does
.
If retired and can afford to RV, we as a group are probably above average income, and could afford to pay the regular fee. Certainly more able to pay the fee than a young struggling family with kids.

However, I did not write the laws. I just use them to my advantage. I have no qualms about using every discount offered me.

The answers you seek are complex. You can examine them by searching the legislative history of FLREA (Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act of 2004).

This law was a refinement of the previous Fee Demo Program of 1996, and previous legislative laws and discussions dating back to the Outdoor Recreation Resources Review of the early 1960's.

But the short (and honest) answer to your question is "Yes."
While you may think this situation is "ridiculous" it is what it is. You are free to write to your Congressman to change it.

I just made reservations at a COE campground for this summer. A 70 foot site adjacent to the reservoir with elect.and water hookup was $16 per night. With the Senior pass, I am paying $8 per night. In my opinion it is a huge bargain at either price. Yet, being completely honest with myself, I don't understand how either the agency, or any concessionaire would not be losing money on that facility at even the full price, and losing twice as much at the discount price. Not sure what it costs in elect. to run an RV air conditioner for 24 hours, but probably that alone eats up much of that $8 fee.

dewey02 wrote:
The Senior Pass gets you a 50% discount at campgrounds run by USFS.
If the site is contracted to a concessionaire, a discount (of any %) is at the discretion of the concessionaire. Many do grant the 50% discount, some grant less, some grant none. .... snip.

I have been aware of this travesty for quiet some time.

This "policy" is so blatantly off-center as to be absurd!! What in the world was the reasoning behind giving seniors a discount, anyway, when the USFS used to run the camping areas? I won't go into what the reason(s) were for establishing this outstanding benefit (I'm all for this discount).

The policy and the reasoning behind offering the discounts being a given ... why ON EARTH don't the concessnaire's contracts still require them to offer this for senior visitors who hold the passes? Do the original reasons for granting these senior pass discounts when visiting our public lands suddenly go away and not have to 100% apply whenever a concessionaire is running them?

Ridiculous ... on several levels.