No heat in northern home all winter.

I note the $$ spent in the post above to prepare a home for a winter without heat, it's about the same as heating our home over the winter.


I was thinking the same thing. Our place is in the middle of ski resort country, in the mountains of northeastern PA. In the worst winter in decades I keep my all electric house at 50*F for a cost of about ten cents a square foot a month. We had a need to return, unexpectedly, in brutally cold Feb. weather. Half an hour after we pulled in, the place was toasty, the water flowing and hot. I'm sure I could successfully winterize the place and turn the power off, but the cost/risk/benefit analysis doesn't add up. If I was a few hundred miles north and had a cabin on piers, it would be a whole other issue.

soren wrote:

az99 wrote:

soren wrote:


I was a home builder in a wet, wooded region where crawl spaces are common, and winter temps. might go to zero on rare occasion, but typically lows in the teens are more common. I have seen unheated vacation homes with cracked and bulging foundations, and even frost that worked it way deep under the structure and heaved column pads upward a few inches. Now, you are spot on with regard to damages likely in extreme cold, but don't forget frost needs three things, low temps, moisture and conditions that retain moisture. I can assure you that in our wet clay soils we have three of three. When my new homeowners tell me, "We are planning on shutting the heat off in the winters" I'm pretty blunt.
I tell them to expect drywall damage, to be aware that structural damage due to frost heaving is a possibility, and that I don't warranty poor decisions.

How were you allowed to or why did you build a structure where the footings for the foundation were not below frost line?

Massive presumption on your part. All my work far exceeds code requirements, foundations are done well beyond minimum requirements, and I failed exactly zero inspections, which is pretty unusual after a few hundred of them. As for my observations, It's important to note that there are plenty of events that can happen to an unattended building, and as I have seen several times in the past, clogged, missing or damaged gutters, and several weeks of wet freeze and thaw cycles in a mixed climate like ours can really do some damage to a foundation.

Absolutely agree with soren's comments! For the comments on seasonal cabins without basements, it doesn't really matter if the cabin receives some damage, it's an easy and cheap fix. For those of us with basements it's a different matter. It's easy to get wall damage given the power of the freeze-thaw cycles (none of you folks have any potholes and bridge/road damage in your areas do you?).

I note the $$ spent in the post above to prepare a home for a winter without heat, it's about the same as heating our home over the winter.

In terms of potential damage and costs, our home insurance deductible is $500, a bit less than the annual winter heating costs, I'm wondering if the insurance company would pay a substantial claim for foundation damage when you don't heat your house over the winter??

az99 wrote:

soren wrote:


I was a home builder in a wet, wooded region where crawl spaces are common, and winter temps. might go to zero on rare occasion, but typically lows in the teens are more common. I have seen unheated vacation homes with cracked and bulging foundations, and even frost that worked it way deep under the structure and heaved column pads upward a few inches. Now, you are spot on with regard to damages likely in extreme cold, but don't forget frost needs three things, low temps, moisture and conditions that retain moisture. I can assure you that in our wet clay soils we have three of three. When my new homeowners tell me, "We are planning on shutting the heat off in the winters" I'm pretty blunt.
I tell them to expect drywall damage, to be aware that structural damage due to frost heaving is a possibility, and that I don't warranty poor decisions.

How were you allowed to or why did you build a structure where the footings for the foundation were not below frost line?

Massive presumption on your part. All my work far exceeds code requirements, foundations are done well beyond minimum requirements, and I failed exactly zero inspections, which is pretty unusual after a few hundred of them. As for my observations, It's important to note that there are plenty of events that can happen to an unattended building, and as I have seen several times in the past, clogged, missing or damaged gutters, and several weeks of wet freeze and thaw cycles in a mixed climate like ours can really do some damage to a foundation.

Check carefully with your insurance company. OR better yet have a lawyer go over the policy and fine print. We cannot leave our house empty for more than 30 days without permission from the insurance company. Even with permission there are several requirements such as having the house checked regularly, water turned off, hot water tank turned off and some heat.

We have shut everything down in our house in NH. As do many others in the area. Never been a problem of us. However we do need to continue keep the driveway plowed for emergency services...if needed.

Our plumber charges 375 to shut it down, and $200 to start it up in the spring. In order to prep our hot water heating system with antifreeze, it cost another $350.

The biggest hassle is getting all the liquids out of the living space and the garage.

Tens of thousands turn their heat off in their seasonal cabins in northern MN. Many do not have basements and that may make a difference.

Ken O wrote:
The links tell/show buckling of foundations. So I guess you are still telling me that the bowing of the foundation has something to do with not heating the house. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Nuff said, I'm moving on....

No what I'm saying is the bowing of the walls is the frost pushing in the walls from the outside. Has nothing to do with not heating just the amount of heat that escaped those walls and the quality of construction of those walls.

Don't really care if you buy it or not and I'm glad you're moving on. What I do care is those that may read this forum and feel that turning off the heat is a no brainer based on a few that do. Well repairing a foundation is a 10-20 thousand dollar job. Lots to loose to save a few hundred on heating. We turn off our heat to our place, but our place was built to handle that and the extreme cold. Most places that are built to code will do just fine, and the ones that were built by someone that knew what they were doing back in the day.

The links tell/show buckling of foundations. So I guess you are still telling me that the bowing of the foundation has something to do with not heating the house. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Nuff said, I'm moving on....

Ken O wrote:
According to your post,you heat foundations where you live. How do you do that? We only heat the house and that would have nothing to do with the "frost busting the foundations", obviously you would have to get heat down there somehow. We insulate to keep the heat above the crawl space. You must do it different. This sounds real fishy to me.

You're taking it way too literal. No one heats there foundation other than maybe heat in slab which really isn't a foundation. All foundations loose heat to the surrounding ground even if they are insulated. Some will only insulate the top half of a finish basement to insure heat gets out because they don't want to chance it. In a simple terms it lost heat lost. Something you would not have if you shut off the furnace to the whole house.

Here is a link to educate yourself on what can happen with extreme cold, take a look at the bowing of walls. That is what you will see when frost starts pushing on a foundation that does not have enough rebar and concrete in it to push back. Clicky Or do those pictures look real fishy to you also?

soren wrote:

John&Joey wrote:
We turn off everything to our place, but then again we built it so that could be done. We've been doing it now for over 20 years with no damage to walls, floors, paint, misc...

Many cabins and cottages do exactly what you are saying. Also many foreclosed homes the banks will do that also. The banks do not pay to heat homes that they are trying to get rid of.

What you need to be aware of is frost busting the foundation. Heat is meant to escape threw the basement to help keep the frost away from the foundation. This busting of basement walls will only happen in areas with extreme cold temps (minus 20 and more.)

I was a home builder in a wet, wooded region where crawl spaces are common, and winter temps. might go to zero on rare occasion, but typically lows in the teens are more common. I have seen unheated vacation homes with cracked and bulging foundations, and even frost that worked it way deep under the structure and heaved column pads upward a few inches. Now, you are spot on with regard to damages likely in extreme cold, but don't forget frost needs three things, low temps, moisture and conditions that retain moisture. I can assure you that in our wet clay soils we have three of three. When my new homeowners tell me, "We are planning on shutting the heat off in the winters" I'm pretty blunt.
I tell them to expect drywall damage, to be aware that structural damage due to frost heaving is a possibility, and that I don't warranty poor decisions.

In my area of Michigan, I don't know of anyone that heats the foundations. We get quite a bit of sub zero F temps. Almost no season homes are heated in the winter.

According to your post,you heat foundations where you live. How do you do that? We only heat the house and that would have nothing to do with the "frost busting the foundations", obviously you would have to get heat down there somehow. We insulate to keep the heat above the crawl space. You must do it different. This sounds real fishy to me.