Toroweap Overlook

[jstaffon]

We're currently staying in Kanab, UT and have enjoyed places such as Zion NP, Bryce Canyon NP and the Grand Staircase-Escalante. We aren't able to see the North Rim of the Grand Canyon due to snow conditions. That part of the Grand Canyon opens in mid-May. I noticed a place on the map called "Toroweap Overlook". Temperatures seem to be very close to the temperatures in Kanab. I'm thinking it may be open this time of year (March). The road into it is gravel/dirt and it looks like it's a long ride...40 - 50 miles one way. We would like to take a day trip from Kanab to visit. It's an unpaved road that heads south of highway 389 between Colorado City and Fredonia, AZ. Has anyone taken that trip? Are there any surprises such as bad road conditions, possible snow, etc? Thanks in advance!

[cruiserjs]

Yes! I was with a USFS research trip to Toroweap (National Monument in those days!) in May of 1669. We were privileged to stay overnight in the rock cabin manned by John Riffey ( Google h1m!) He was the "monument" ranger at that time - for 40 years ! and flew recon. trips into the canyon in his cloth-covered Piper cub airplane. What a n interesting man and visit we had.

[2gypsies1]

jstaffon wrote:

2gypsies wrote:
Nice video. Now you have to raft the Canyon through that area! We did!!

That would be awesome. If you noted in the video, I had a few seconds on Lava Falls. That is supposedly one of the biggest rapids on the river. It looked like it was about a mile or two downstream from the overlook. I'll have to add that to my bucket list.

Yep.... we went through Lava Falls but our paddle boat was upset in Upset Rapids! Everyone was flipped out like popcorn. The six of us and the guide didn't have enough momentum to get over the wave - estimated to be 25' high... got halfway up and flipped. House-size boulders down below - life vests really do work! (The river reaches a depth of 85' in some areas.) We all eventually got in the boat minus a few paddles and succeeded the second time. The oar boats going through it first had been beached waiting for us to come through so the guide got the whole thing on video and gave us all a copy afterwards. Memories. Each day we had a choice of doing the paddle boat with everyone paddling with a guide or being in the oar boat where the guide oared. From then on we chose the oar boat.

We were on the second trip of the season in May and the river had a strong flow from just released water at the dam. It was crystal clear because we weren't in the rainy season where the water would come from the side creeks and muddy the river. I would highly recommend this trip. It was awesome and the guides very information on the geology and river itself. Many good stories and excellent food during the 136-mile trip. We were issued tents but only used them the first night. Thereafter - under the stars. To begin the 9-day tour we hiked down the Bright Angel Trail and took the place of those who began upstream at Lee's Ferry and they had to hiked up the trail to get out.

Sorry for getting carried away - it was just a fantastic experience.

[jstaffon]

agesilaus wrote:
Very interesting. And what a great view of the river, the best that I've seen. We wanted to go last time we were out there but talking to a ranger in Jacob Lake, she said it was not passable. They had a major wash-out. So we didn't try it.

Not sure what camera you are using, the video was pretty good, if you have a separate microphone I'd suggest getting something called a 'dead cat'. No joke, they look like a fuzzy sock that slides over the mic and dampens all that wind noise. Also cut your exposure back a little. Just a couple suggestions.

Hope to make it out there this summer.

Dead Cats

Geez that point and shoot version is grossly overpriced.

Hope you can make it! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me.

jstaffon@yahoo.com

[jstaffon]

2gypsies wrote:
Nice video. Now you have to raft the Canyon through that area! We did!!

That would be awesome. If you noted in the video, I had a few seconds on Lava Falls. That is supposedly one of the biggest rapids on the river. It looked like it was about a mile or two downstream from the overlook. I'll have to add that to my bucket list.

[jstaffon]

profdant139 wrote:
If I recall correctly, some of the forest roads in that area have locked gates during the winter -- the ranger would know where the closures are. There may be a way around the closures, because the roads in that area have many cross-connections.

I didn't see any places where the road could be blocked with a gate or fence. It's possible though. Most of the areas where there were fences near the road included cattle crossing guards. That would be a great question for the Ranger and BLM. I wouldn't go in if there was snow on the ground. I do know, people normally go in there around November to the end of December to hike because of the cooler temperatures. That area, which includes Kanab, Fredonia, Tuweep and the overlook don't get much of any snow during the winter. The regular North-Rim access road is closed until May 15th because of the altitude at that place in the canyon. January and February could be questionable. We did our trip in March and had great weather and road conditions. We had a lot of rain on Friday and by the following Wednesday the roads were completely dry even with cooler temperatures in the 50s.

[2gypsies1]

Nice video. Now you have to raft the Canyon through that area! We did!!

[agesilaus]

Very interesting. And what a great view of the river, the best that I've seen. We wanted to go last time we were out there but talking to a ranger in Jacob Lake, she said it was not passable. They had a major wash-out. So we didn't try it.

Not sure what camera you are using, the video was pretty good, if you have a separate microphone I'd suggest getting something called a 'dead cat'. No joke, they look like a fuzzy sock that slides over the mic and dampens all that wind noise. Also cut your exposure back a little. Just a couple suggestions.

Hope to make it out there this summer.

Dead Cats

Geez that point and shoot version is grossly overpriced.

[jstaffon]

I promised a video of my Toroweap trip. I didn't spend much time at all on the high clearance vehicle part of the road. There are a lot of videos that talk to that. My video focuses on the other 55+ miles of the road leading up to the tough part and then the overlook itself. My truck is a 2500 HD Duramax so the road seemed a lot bumpier than it probably is. I also don't like beating the heck out of my truck. I also spent a lot of time talking to BLM and forest Rangers before I planned my trip. The most significant thing I found out is clearly noted on the brochure for Toroweap. Maximum length of truck and trailer of 22 feet and all vehicles must be licensed "on road" vehicles. We had Idaho "Restricted" plates which didn't qualify. Although in Idaho we can drive on unpaved roads regardless of their designation...county, state, etc road. The Ranger stopped us at the Ranger Station about 6 miles from the canyon. He was pretty nice but made it clear we were risking getting a ticket if we proceeded. He also told us that he wanted us to see the canyon...having driven all that way...and that he had some things to take care of and would be tied up for a few hours....wink, wink.

Here's the link to my Youtube video.

https://youtu.be/429SSJyslWA

[huachuca]

Thanks for the additional info and I look forward to the video.

I've found two reasons to air down - Traction issues or ride comfort. Unless I encounter one or the other, I stay at highway pressure. Ask the ranger what pressure they run when driving this road and go from there.

We stopped at Pipe Spring in late summer two years back and they shared corn, squash and beans from their native vegetable garden. Really nice staff there and an interesting history of the place.

[jstaffon]

Wow....that's a lot lower than I was thinking! I'm hoping I don't need them that low. I plan to tow my ATVs until the road begins to get rough. I'll make a note on this to contact you via the forum. I also plan to make a Youtube video that talks specifically to the road condition at various checkpoints throughout the 61 mile trek. Of all the videos I've watched, not one of them talks to the road condition (not weather related but roughness based on location) during this drive. I stopped at Pipe Springs today and talked to the Native American Park Ranger who has made the trip multiple times. He pointed out exactly on the map where I should expect good road, sharp rocks, lava rock and the necessity for a high clearance vehicle. Sounds like the road is reasonable until about 10 miles from the overlook. I also plan to track cell phone coverage (Verizon service) throughout. I'm told there's coverage most of the way in and then when you're at the rim/overlook. There's apparently a cell tower south of the South Rim....weak but a signal. I'll also document that. I think I'll run my tires at 40 psi. I've played with 65 front; 75 rear when towing my 5th wheel, 65 front and back when empty which is where the GM tire shop sets them, and 55 front; 60 rear when empty. I like the ride at 55-60 empty. Not brave enough to go lower than 40. Cross your fingers! Thanks for the reply.

[huachuca]

jstaffon wrote:
Well....I didn't get to do the this trip last year. I'm down here again this year and committed to making the trek. I talked to a couple Rangers and they recommended running a low tire pressure to minimize the chance of tire damage. Does anyone have a good tire pressure to use for a GMC 2500 Duramax with Michelin LTX A/T, LT265/70R18, Load E tires?

Tacoma 4WD double cab with P265/75R16 BFG KO2's here. I drop down to 18 psi on rocks and to 16 on deeper sand. I wouldn't recommend anything below 12 due to the risk of blowing a bead.

If you don't already have one, I'd also suggest a decent 12V compressor (ViAir, MasterFlow, etc). With tires the size of yours, a higher quality unit with alligator clips rather than a cigarette lighter plug will have a much better duty cycle. A good tire plug kit and the knowledge to use it is another recommended accessory. It may be overkill but, when travelling in more remote areas or for long distances, I carry a second spare for both the truck and the camper.

Please post back here or PM me with details of this track. We'll be in northen AZ and southern UT for about six weeks starting in mid May and I'd like to do this same trail. TIA.

[jstaffon]

Well....I didn't get to do the this trip last year. I'm down here again this year and committed to making the trek. I talked to a couple Rangers and they recommended running a low tire pressure to minimize the chance of tire damage. Does anyone have a good tire pressure to use for a GMC 2500 Duramax with Michelin LTX A/T, LT265/70R18, Load E tires?

[stuckinthesand]

The last 4 or 5 miles are the part you will need high clearance. Not sure where atv's are allowed. I remember signs denoting OHV use in the area.

[jstaffon]

My plan was to drive my GMC and pull our ATVs most of the way or until the road gets rough then transition to the 2 ATVs (quads). Does anyone know how far you can drive on dirt/gravel roads before you get to the part where you need a high clearance vehicle? We do a lot of rough ATVing in the mountains and desert in Idaho so we're experienced. I'm also a HAM radio operator. I'm going to search for repeaters that might be useful in case of an emergency.

I read something about needing to have our ATVs registered in either Utah or Arizona. Does anyone know any details about that? We've been ATVing in the Kanab area with our Idaho registration. I thought that was all you needed. I've watched a number of Youtube videos on the area...what an awesome experience! Thanks in advance!

[stuckinthesand]

I did it 2 years ago in Oct. You will need a truck or other high clearance vehicle, may need 4wd if conditions are nasty but I wouldn't even try it in bad conditions anyway. It's a rough road with bad wash boarding to get to the recreation area, you'll need a map cause the roads are not marked and there are lots of them. There's a ranger/volunteer at the entrance (the recreation area) who will let you know what to expect at the overlook then it's a couple more miles of rough stuff, I did it in a Wrangler and although I didn't use 4wd it was slow going and bumpy. Well worth it once you get to the overlook, we were the only ones out there that day. It's an all day trip and I mean dawn till dusk. No gates that I recall but lots of cattle and cattle guards. Oh and no reliable cell signal so go prepared.

Good luck and be safe.