Adding 12V Receptacles

[SkiSmuggs]

I would like to add some 12v receptacles and first thought I would have to run wire (still not a bad idea and I will come back to that), but it was suggested that I could tap into a nearby 12v light fixture. I am all LED now so I am not concerned about overload. So I can use the BR reading lamp to add a receptacle near the bed for my CPAP, and I can use a light over the sofa to add one there. I would also like one at the LR entertainment center for a 300w inverter to power TV and DVD player, but there are no lights there and am not sure if I should use the Jensen power wire or not. Any suggestions for that or about the plan in general.
My issue with running good 12v wire is I am not sure how to run that through my fiver and I am not sure how to connect to the battery. Direct battery connection of several wires doesn't seem like a good idea and it seems the existing wire runs to the converter at the back of the trailer. And would I need to run both a hot and ground wire?
Feel free to chip in on whatever topic you feel comfortable with.
Thanks

[SkiSmuggs]

Peg Leg wrote:
I have to charge my leg at night. It has a wall-wart transformer with a built in control system but uses 24v. I use a small inverter thru my bedroom 12v plug. Since I already had the 12v in the bedroom, I made sure the TV I bought used a 12v wall-wart so I can also use it when boondocking.

I'm not familiar with CPAC machines. Do they use a wall-wart to plug into a 120v receptacle? I ask because Ski says most will run on 12v. If so using a inverter to change 12v to 120v so a wall-wart can change it back to 12v. That will be so inefficient.

Ski said, they draw 3 amps, if that's at 12v the draw (36 watts) is about the same as a incandescent bulb and shouldn't be much of a problem tapping into any light circuit.

Now a 300 watt inverter is looking to pull 25 amps at 12v. This will need a dedicated circuit with larger wire. I might be easier to mount the inverter near the battery and run 120v circuit to a receptacle.

CPAPs (constant air pressure pump) do use a wall-wart to convert 110v to 12v which I didn't realize until I started asking questions on forums and was told that most will run on 12v with the proper cable which I now have for both my RV and house units, so I now only want an inverter at the entertainment center with 12v at the head of the bed and near the dinette (12v fan, chargers).
I just looked at the bedroom slide where the ceiling reading lamp is and was surprised to see no wires showing on the top side, then realized I was looking at the slider roof. :S So I have to go in through the fixture and surface run the wire from it to the 12v outlet mounting location 2.5' or so away. I guess I will fasten to the slider ceiling with staples. And I can do the same for the dinette ceiling light also in a slide out.
The entertainment inverter is on the back burner as I can live without it.

[myredracer]

You might consider installing one of these Sigma charging centers. I just installed one and used a spare circuit & fuse in the converter panel.

Running wiring around a ceiling isn't as hard as one might think. I've done lots of it now. Take down anything from the ceiling that can provide access into the ceiling cavity like skylight bezel, AC vents, lights, speakers, etc. Use a coat hanger or electricians fish tape (available cheap at HF). You will probably have to leapfrog from access point to access point. You can go up and down inside walls if needed to run far enough horizontally. You can also cut small access holes in the ceiling inside cabinets, fridge compartment, etc. Use a sharp utility knife for cutting luan. If there is wiring on a wall already, there is a chance if it goes up into the ceiling space, you can fish another wire or two down in the same hole. I've done that a few times.

The hardest part about running wiring in a ceiling cavity is that it is very cramped and if you have big hands, you may not be able to reach in very well. If you have one of the new arched ceilings, they are really cramped, especially at the outer edges.

Watch out for sharp screws too. The factories like to use lots of sharp tipped screws in ceilings and you'll even find wiring laying on top of them.

[Peg_Leg]

I have to charge my leg at night. It has a wall-wart transformer with a built in control system but uses 24v. I use a small inverter thru my bedroom 12v plug. Since I already had the 12v in the bedroom, I made sure the TV I bought used a 12v wall-wart so I can also use it when boondocking.

I'm not familiar with CPAC machines. Do they use a wall-wart to plug into a 120v receptacle? I ask because Ski says most will run on 12v. If so using a inverter to change 12v to 120v so a wall-wart can change it back to 12v. That will be so inefficient.

Ski said, they draw 3 amps, if that's at 12v the draw (36 watts) is about the same as a incandescent bulb and shouldn't be much of a problem tapping into any light circuit.

Now a 300 watt inverter is looking to pull 25 amps at 12v. This will need a dedicated circuit with larger wire. I might be easier to mount the inverter near the battery and run 120v circuit to a receptacle.

[SkiSmuggs]

Johno02 wrote:
I have a dedicated 12v outlet added to the base of the bed just for my CPAP. Only problem is that if AC power goes off during the night, the CPAP still runs fine, and I don't wake up.

And this is my first priority! This may be the easiest part and I probably asked too much in my original post. I think I can do this part just by tapping into the reading light wiring which is good because my bed is in a slide out so by using existing wiring, I won't have to deal with routing and protecting moving wires.
The DC outlet by the dinette/LR sofa would be for a 12v fan or USB charging so light wiring should be okay for that also. That just leaves the entertainment inverter to puzzle through.

[Johno02]

I have a dedicated 12v outlet added to the base of the bed just for my CPAP. Only problem is that if AC power goes off during the night, the CPAP still runs fine, and I don't wake up.

[SkiSmuggs]

dahkota wrote:
I have a jack wired from my radio wire. I can only put about an 80W load on it before the inverter protests.

I also have a jack wired at the 12V panel. I have run up to 300W on this one with no problems.

I have tried three different inverters on both jacks - the results are always the same. I have tried running the radio wired jack with no other 12V draws in the RV - the inverter still protests (loudly) over about 80W, even when plugged in to shore power. My conclusion is the wire to the radio is too small for a larger load. Yours may be different.

My BR TV receptacle is good with my Bestek 300w directly, but failed miserably with a cheap 10' 12v extension. I got a NOCO extension with heavier wire and it is good running the CPAP at 110v, but have since switched to direct 12v for the CPAP. I want a receptacle near the head of the bed to eliminate the extension cord and the CPAP only draws 3 amps so connecting to the wiring for the reading light shouldn't pose a problem.

[SkiSmuggs]

ScottG wrote:
For low power demand items (like cell phone chargers) just adding an outlet to exiting wiring is fine. But for an inverter of 300 watts your going to want to run new wire (at least 10 awg) preferably to the batteries or at least to the larger cables that run between the converter and battery.

You are probably right. I could even direct wire to an inverter like a Samlex for an entertainment center but just need to figure how to get it there and how to connect to the battery without putting it right on the post with the other wires, but maybe I shouldn't worry about that as there is room on the post for additional wires.
If I knew what I were doing, I could probably set up something that could switch between the converter and inverter automatically like higher end units do. I would imagine that may involve switching out the WFCO charger unit for something more capable.

[SkiSmuggs]

Desert Captain wrote:
I am in the same boat (RV?), as you. I need to add a DC outlet near our bed as I will be picking up my new Cpap from the VA this afternoon. I will then plug my 250 watt inverter into the DC outlet and the Cpap into that.
:C

Captain, almost all CPAPs will run off 12V. It is less complicated and uses less battery as you eliminate the 30% inverter loss. I ordered my 12v cable from CPAP.com and it works great right into the 12v receptacle. My only problem is that I have to run a 12V extension cord from the BR TV cubbie. If you get one of those, get a NOCO as they have heavier wire. The first extension I got was a POS that my inverter (before I got the CPAP 12V cable) wouldn't run on for more than a few seconds.
I will have to look for the DC fuse panel, but I believe it is under the stove at the rear of the trailer and it would be a dog to run it that far. Seems like a small fuse/distribution panel directly off the battery might be a way to go, but just guessing.

[dahkota]

I have a jack wired from my radio wire. I can only put about an 80W load on it before the inverter protests.

I also have a jack wired at the 12V panel. I have run up to 300W on this one with no problems.

I have tried three different inverters on both jacks - the results are always the same. I have tried running the radio wired jack with no other 12V draws in the RV - the inverter still protests (loudly) over about 80W, even when plugged in to shore power. My conclusion is the wire to the radio is too small for a larger load. Yours may be different.

[ScottG]

For low power demand items (like cell phone chargers) just adding an outlet to exiting wiring is fine. But for an inverter of 300 watts your going to want to run new wire (at least 10 awg) preferably to the batteries or at least to the larger cables that run between the converter and battery.

[Desert_Captain]

I am in the same boat (RV?), as you. I need to add a DC outlet near our bed as I will be picking up my new Cpap from the VA this afternoon. I will then plug my 250 watt inverter into the DC outlet and the Cpap into that.

When I added a DC outlet on our old TT I just ran the wire to the back side of the fuse panel. There are usually a number of unused slots. If the run is 10' or less, measure both ways, then #14 duplex multi stranded wire works very well. If you do tie into a light fixture you will want to put in an line fuse (either way a 10 amp should be about right), between the light fixture and the new outlet.

:C

[Hornnumb2]

I would check your panel and see if you have some open slots. Running wire is going to be a different story unless you go out the bottom and back in, just make sure its sealed up good.