Carpet installation question...

[cannesdo]

I'm replacing the carpet in my fifth-wheel. I have a memory foam pad and am trying to visualize how this all goes together.

Do I need to use a knee-kicker/stretcher for such a small space? (longest piece is 16' but only a few feet wide)

They said the pad should be glued to the floor but I'm not using toxic products so I'm opting for tape. But on top of the pad, between that and the carpet do I need tape there also? I've read you tape there too. Seems if you have tape on it and set down the carpet the kicker will be working against the tape. I would think that just having the pad stuck to the floor would be enough. Then stretch the carpet over it and tack it down with a stapler and I'll be good to go -- no?

And since it's a thick pad (1/2" memory foam) I'm thinking leave a little space at the edges as I'm not sure the staples will go through the pad and sufficiently tack the carpet to the floor. Then again it does compress. ? I'm definitely leaving room where the slides come up and over the center part of the floor. Cutting the pad short there.

Not using tack strips. Don't have them under the carpet I have now.

Any tips would be appreciated. Everyone seems to do this in a slightly different way.

Thanks!

[cannesdo]

Hey, thanks for that. Came back to follow up with my staple adventures. Tried a chrome spring stapler that uses narrow gauge staples and it didn't quite cut it. So yes, I ended up looking for electric carpet staplers and got a great deal on this one ($75) on eBay: Electric Carpet Stapler Had great reviews on the Home Depot website. So that should do the trick. I have narrow staples in both my pad and carpet so I'll try to the chrome stapler on the pad and if that doesn't work well I'll probably just use the narrow gauge on that too.

Not sure I need the trimmer. Think I'm gonna wing it with my razor knife. Can you trust the weave to be square/parallel to the edge? If you neeed a straight line can you follow that? Figure the stair tool should help with that.

My only confusion now...If I cut the piece to size, with all the cut-outs, and I stretch it, the cut-outs won't be in the right place...so I guess I should allow a little wiggle room on those.

[westend]

cannesdo wrote:
Would this work for the pad or do I need to get one of those high-powered air-staplers?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-TR45-Light-Duty-Stapler-Wide-Crown-/321328887190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain...

This one used 4-6-8mm staples -- 4 for carpet, 8 for pad? 2 for 1? 😉

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XUNFA-TACKER-Heavy-Duty-Staple-Gun-Metal-Upholstery-Carpet-Roofing-Stapler-T...

Either of those would work for pad installation but I prefer to use one of these hammer staplers I have a Duofast and a Swedish one, which I prefer. They both use T-50 staples and a 3/8" staple into a 7/16" pad works well. I also have an electric wide crown stapler (T-50) that I use to hang poly sheets like vapor barriers and such, it is a good, cheap tool but on pad, I can staple faster with the hammer tacker.

For tacking carpet I use an electric narrow crown stapler. I have the older model that has a cast aluminum body, it must be 20 yrs. old. It also doubles as a soffit and trim installer when working with aluminum soffit and trim, pretty much anywhere you want to use a narrow, 9/16" staple. If using this, be careful. One afternoon, I had to climb off a ladder and pull a staple out of a finger knuckle with a pliers.:o 😞

Carpet edge trimmer

[cannesdo]

Would this work for the pad or do I need to get one of those high-powered air-staplers?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-TR45-Light-Duty-Stapler-Wide-Crown-/321328887190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain...

This one used 4-6-8mm staples -- 4 for carpet, 8 for pad? 2 for 1? 😉

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XUNFA-TACKER-Heavy-Duty-Staple-Gun-Metal-Upholstery-Carpet-Roofing-Stapler-T...

[cannesdo]

Ok, gotcha. I like to learn things. 🙂 Was going to thank you for not suggesting I was crazy to do it. (I'm female too.) I really like doing this kind of work and always said if I'd been a burly guy I would have been in construction or did some kind of work with my hands. And I like the feeling of satisfaction I get from doing it myself. I was always the kid who pulled out the manual when the car broke down and set to work trying to figure out how to fix it.

Have a stair tool on order. Will look into the edge cutter.

Nothing will please me more than prying this crappy carpet up and throwing it out the door.

And what about the door?

[westend]

Yes on the staplers. Pad is taped on the seam topside to prevent pulling the seam apart when installing the carpet. It is not 100% necessary as I've installed a lot of carpet over untaped seams. Just make sure you staple the seam thoroughly.

Trimming the edges of the carpet is usually done after stretching. 3" is a recommended excess as a carpet stretcher foot is a bit higher than 2". It is easier to trim 3" than it is to trim 1". An edge cutter is used to run down the edge of the carpet. This is a tool that is also available at a rental center. The edge cutter has a handle on it and the cutter blade is positioned at the fold of the floor-to-wall. The edge cutter is then pushed along side the wall and the carpet edge and excess are trimmed. A stair tool is necessary to push the carpet edge down after trimming if using tack strip. A stair tool is almost essential for installing carpet. Do an internet search for stair tool to see what this tool is. It is also used to form the fold mentioned previously.

"Just tore up some carpet at the edge of the living room where the edge is hidden under the flap. There's a 3" wood strip there (solid, feels built in) and then the pad starts flush with that and that's on top of wood. No pad in the slides. So that means the pad will just be sitting on top of a flat piece of wood so the edges will really drop down at the wall, yes? Maybe not a good idea. Your thoughts? I would really like to have padding under the table as well."
This I do not understand. I would recommend putting pad where it originally was installed.

"concave curve"-not understanding that either. Carpet is often folded and then stapled where it meets another flooring surface. Don't get crazy with the cutting. Look how the original was installed and follow that lead.

I've got to hand it to you, installing carpet is usually too much of a mystery for most folks to handle. The truth is, an installer doesn't charge very much, either. Good luck on the installation.

[cannesdo]

Thank you. 🙂 ...A few more questions....

So I will need a wide stapler for the pad and a narrow stapler for the carpet?

The pad is only 6' wide and my rig is 7'7" so I will have to have a seam in the living room. I have a persian rug that I put over the rug and I'll put the seam (taped -- any specific kind to join the pad? And underneath the pad or on the top side or both? -- under that. I have two-way tape for the under side of the pad.

Small confusion about cutting. My understanding was that you cut it out flipped over with the backing up, yes, but if you're cutting it too big for the space you'll end up doing most of the cutting inside the room from the top side (turning the carpet edge over I'm guessing, where you can, to trim it from the backing side. Seems like if you measure it well and it's going to be stretched anyway an extra inch all around should be enough for the initial cutting of the piece outside. Some say to allow 3 extra inches all around. Not sure why that is. ? I understand it's going to need more trimming once you bring it in but it seems like a lot of extra carpet to wrangle is only going to make things more difficult. ?

By binding I'm talking about the piece in the slide. The bound edge that flaps out over the living room center section. I have another on the other side with my tv/desk slide.

Weft. That's new. I'll ask about that when I pick it up.

New issue I discovered last night. I've got steps up to the right from the entry, to the bathroom sink and corner shower on the left, then a w.c on the right. There's no pad up there and I'll like there to be but the w.c. door is going to be hanging too low if I add the pad. There's only 1/4" clearance now. It's one of those hollow doors with thin panel strip (I think) on the bottom. Can I have that cut down without making a splintered mess of the side panels or would I need to get a new door?

Additional cutting tool other than the razor blade cutter (has an ergonomic handle)? Anything else I should get?

Just tore up some carpet at the edge of the living room where the edge is hidden under the flap. There's a 3" wood strip there (solid, feels built in) and then the pad starts flush with that and that's on top of wood. No pad in the slides. So that means the pad will just be sitting on top of a flat piece of wood so the edges will really drop down at the wall, yes? Maybe not a good idea. Your thoughts? I would really like to have padding under the table as well.

One section where the living room and kitchen meet has a concave carpet curve, kind of a rounded 'L" that butts up to wood floor. The edge is folded under 1.5" but I'm thinking that's just a matter of cutting into the carpet in a sun ray pattern around the curve to make it work. Then stapling through both layers. Fortunately this new carpet I'm getting folds pretty easily without looking too thick.

You have helped me so much...Thank you thank you thank you....

[westend]

3M makes a double sided tape that will hold anything together. There are different grades of this tape, the stickiest being "Extreme duty". Like I mentioned, a wide crown stapler is the fastener of choice for most professionals over wood substrate. If installing pad over concrete, an adhesive is used and it mainly involves a thin bead around the perimeter. Pad is never attached to the carpet unless it is manufactured with a bonded pad.

You can try to precut the pieces needed but if stretched, the dimensions change, right? What are you having bound? If you're binding the edges of the carpet, you just flop the carpet on the pad and no stretching is required. Are you confusing binding with seaming?

Carpet has a warp and weft, it is directional. Pieces cut to cover one area are cut so that the direction is all the same. All residential carpet has arrows on the back to ascertain direction. It is best practice to install carpet with the direction of weft towards the entrance, footsteps walk into or against the grain. BTW, carpet is cut with the backing up. That allows the installer to make clean straight cuts, especially if cut between or along backer thread pattern. All good installers will cut the selvage off if cutting pieces. If you're installing Berber or closed loop carpet, it has it's own idiosyncrasies regarding cutting and seaming.

Putting pieces of pad underneath the carpet instead of full will result in waves of the carpet as a final result. If you don't care about the area under the couch, don't put any pad under there.

[cannesdo]

You are just the guy I needed to find. I hear ya, guess we'll see. Couldn't find a bad review but since it is relatively new, I guess I'll be one of the guinea pigs. I got good carpet too (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Healthier-Choice-6-ft-x-45-ft-White-Premium-Carpet-Cushion-WHT270/202788965). They're recommending Mohawk's memory foam pad for that carpet as well, but who knows... Both have a 25 year warranty. I guess if it comes to it I'll just have to pull up edges and restretch it. I'm only 118 lbs and I live alone so that should help a bit.

Ok, to review -- can I tape the pad down? One how-to I read said to tape down the pad with big tape 'x's. Do I need to attach the pad to the carpet in any way? Or is it best to let the carpet slide around on it as you're installing/stretching it? I'm thinking the latter. It's going to take me a while to do this so I'm buying the kicker on eBay. I can resell it when I'm done. Have a razor blade cutter, considering scissors. I think I should be able to do this. I'm good with this kind of thing. I like a challenge. Have a good sense of spacial relations. 🙂

I have it all mapped out the way it's going to fit on the roll. Think I'll stake a tarp down in "the drive" -- I'm in a good place to do this right now -- and cut out the main pieces and roll them up separately so I can keep them inside. Found a place to do the binding. You have to buy this padding in 180 sq. ft. rolls so I'm not putting it under the couch, just under the front of it and squares under the back legs. I know that's weird but you can't see under there anyway, right?

My present carpet is so bad -- been lived on since 2001 -- and I work from home so I went all out on "gush". Went lighter too...living dangerously. Already have contractor booties for visitors. That or shoes will be left at the door! I figure the lighter carpet will help to lighten the place up.

New adventure! I'm excited.

[westend]

cannesdo wrote:
Very helpful, and easy to understand --thank you Westend (you too Pepp). But as for the memory foam, it is memory foam. Top of the line. Just received it and it leaves an imprint when you press on it and will never leave dents in your carpet from chairs etc...Gets rave reviews from those who use it. I got mine from someone on eBay and they bungled the shipment so they refunded in full, including the shipping. ?! 🙂

This takes you to the Home Depot page for the pad.

I stand corrected. I had no idea that that type of foam is being used for carpet pad. It sends up a bunch of red flags for me, though.

I've forgotten what they call the stitch used for rugs but basically you have a fiber that is stitched into a backing. Modern carpet is usually all plastic backed until you get into premium goods and some of that is still made with a natural fiber backing. As carpet is walked on, it compresses the fibers of the pile and stretches the backing. This is why with cheaper plastic backed rug, you'll see loose carpet or waves after the carpet has had some wear. A jute backing will stretch less and tends to shrink from age.

Carpet that is installed by glue-direct will wear the least. That type of installation has no pad and is usually used in a commercial setting. The better foam pad is made from virgin closed cell foam. Next down the ladder is rebond, basically chopped and recycled foam pieces held together by adhesive. The better rebonds will have more glue and therefore, a higher density.

And now we have a memory foam, a type of foam that has the most compressibility. I see that it is rated as 10 lb. density which would put it in the neighborhood of rebond pad. But now the memory foam has the "memory" part and doesn't spring back. This should allow the carpet to stretch more as it wears or is walked on. This is the red flag I'm seeing.

It will be interesting to follow your exploits with the memory foam and to see how your carpet fairs. Who knows, that may be many years down the road.

[cannesdo]

Has no smell to it at all...breathable moisure barrier, low VOC's, lifetime guarantee *and* completely recyclable. *boo-yah* 🙂

[cannesdo]

Very helpful, and easy to understand --thank you Westend (you too Pepp). But as for the memory foam, it is memory foam. Top of the line. Just received it and it leaves an imprint when you press on it and will never leave dents in your carpet from chairs etc...Gets rave reviews from those who use it. I got mine from someone on eBay and they bungled the shipment so they refunded in full, including the shipping. ?! 🙂

This takes you to the Home Depot page for the pad.

[westend]

First, nobody uses memory foam for flooring, that would be a mess. Most carpet pad is either rebond (pieces of recycled foam bonded together) or closed cell foam. You probably have the latter. You can staple the foam down with a wide crown stapler, glue it down, or not use anything. Allow some space around the perimeter so that you are stapling just through the rug and not the pad. Carpet is stapled with a narrow crown stapler, something a typical homeowner doesn't have. You can rent a narrow crown stapler at a rental yard. Stretching or kicking the carpet will get better results. A carpet kicker can be rented, also.

Here's the usual procedure: Staple down pad and cover any seams with tape. Cut carpet allowing for 2" excess material around the perimeter. Staple edge of carpet along one edge. Kick carpet perpendicular to the first edge secured. Staple along the stretched edge. Kick carpet along the two remaining free edges, stretching and stapling as you go towards the final unattached corner. Trim carpet around perimeter. Trimming is done with an edge cutter and utility knife.

You can install your carpet with any variation you want, of course. The above is the way a professional does it. I have installed 10K's of yds. of carpet.

[Pepperoni]

When using staples, take your time. Use your fingers to divide the yarn so that the staples go only through the backing, and do not pin down the yarn. Done properly, you will not see the staples, done otherwise,, you will see all the staples. Do not worry if your stapler does not drive the staples fully --- just use your hammer to drive them after placing with the stapler. this will also allow you to work out any yarn accidentally trapped under a staple.