Fifth Wheel Hitch Decision

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
All of B&W's products are US made, that I'm aware of.

So far, everything I've bought from Curt has been US made too.

I prefer to do business with both Curt and B&W, rather than Reese, Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch, Fulton, Tow Power, and all the other companies that operate under that corporate umbrella, since most of their stuff is made in China, and doesn't cost any less than the American made products of Curt and B&W.

I too will buy CURT but NOT there 5er hitches as they are ALL Made in China.

I feel that way about it too, now that I know.

Go to their site their wording would lead you to believe all their products are US Made. But if you read the meaning of their words they are not being clear at all.

fj12ryder wrote:

jshupe wrote:
I was just saying it's taken into consideration. I would never advise pulling anything more than a pop-up or teardrop without trailer brakes, just to be clear.

I don't think brakes are prone enough to failure to worry about them any more than a blow out, and shouldn't be the deciding factor for a vehicle as long as you are within the stated GCWR for your TV.

There's an awful lot of people running TPMS that don't feel quite the same as you when it comes to blowouts. :)

Brakes do fail: wires do short out, umbilical cords get ripped out or worn by dragging on the pavement, grease gets on the brake linings making the trailer brakes perform very badly. IOW stuff sometimes just happens. Not often, but I've read about all of the above happening to people that post on this forum.

I run TPMS on my trailer but am not overly concerned about a blowout. It just makes sense to closely monitor such things. Proper maintenance and care goes a long way to prevent failures. Most of the things you addressed are products of either neglect or incorrect maintenance.

Trailer tires generally suck. You have to keep them out of the sunlight as much as possible, keep them aired to the proper inflation via load tables (or max, in many of our cases), keep your speed within their limits, keep their load within their limits, be careful not to rub them on curbs, and not let them age beyond a certain point. It's a pain in the ass to stay on top of those things but not doing so is the reason most people have blowouts.

Wires don't short out for no reason. Brake wires need to be inspected. EOH lines need to be inspected.
If your umbilical cord gets ripped out, you are routing it incorrectly.
If your umbilical cord is dragging on the pavement... see above.
If you get grease on your brake linings, you aren't taking proper care when packing your bearings or replacing your shoes/ pads. Or you're using the wrong type of grease, or letting your seals wear out.

Brake controller failure is an example of an occurrence that can't be helped with proper care and attention. But it's exceedingly rare.

jshupe wrote:
I was just saying it's taken into consideration. I would never advise pulling anything more than a pop-up or teardrop without trailer brakes, just to be clear.

I don't think brakes are prone enough to failure to worry about them any more than a blow out, and shouldn't be the deciding factor for a vehicle as long as you are within the stated GCWR for your TV.

There's an awful lot of people running TPMS that don't feel quite the same as you when it comes to blowouts. :)

Brakes do fail: wires do short out, umbilical cords get ripped out or worn by dragging on the pavement, grease gets on the brake linings making the trailer brakes perform very badly. IOW stuff sometimes just happens. Not often, but I've read about all of the above happening to people that post on this forum.

jshupe wrote:
I was just saying it's taken into consideration. I would never advise pulling anything more than a pop-up or teardrop without trailer brakes, just to be clear.

I don't think brakes are prone enough to failure to worry about them any more than a blow out, and shouldn't be the deciding factor for a vehicle as long as you are within the stated GCWR for your TV.

I hear you there.

fj12ryder wrote:
Sometimes those brakes fail. Like we say on the motorcycle forums: Plan for the slide, not just the ride. :)

What happens with a Class 8's trailer brakes fail? Usually a jackknife, when the 60k lb load tries to swap ends with the 20k lb truck. Don't see much difference, except size, and I've seen more than one RV well out in a runaway ramp.

Lyle

I was just saying it's taken into consideration. I would never advise pulling anything more than a pop-up or teardrop without trailer brakes, just to be clear.

I don't think brakes are prone enough to failure to worry about them any more than a blow out, and shouldn't be the deciding factor for a vehicle as long as you are within the stated GCWR for your TV.

jshupe wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

jshupe wrote:
Their truck has a GCVWR of 31100#. They will be under that limit, which is the one to look at when it comes to safe braking. Trailer brakes fail, and I'm pulling these speculative stats out of thin air, but the rate of occurrence is probably far less than a tire blowing out, and no more often than a leaf breaking or suspension bolt shearing. Not something to be overly concerned with as long as you are under GCVWR, inspect your trailer regularly, and take care of your rig.

The truck's brakes are NOT designed to stop it's GCWR weight. They are designed to stop it's GVWR weight. Big difference.

They're not designed to, but unbraked trailer braking is part of the equation for determining GCWR. From section 4.5 of J2807:

Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle
Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating wrote:

4.5 Combination Braking
This section defines combination braking performance requirements at GCWR. This section should be used to determine any or all of the following TWR/GCWR limits: maximum unbraked trailer limit, conventional braked trailer limit and fifth wheel/gooseneck braked trailer limit.

4.5.1 Combination Braking Performance Requirement Summary
The tow-vehicle brake system, in conjunction with appropriate test trailer(s) per 4.1, shall be capable of meeting certain braking requirements for the specified GCWR. The following table summarizes metrics, requirements and test methods for specific performance attributes. The purpose of 4.5 is to determine the suitability of the tow-vehicle brake system in conjunction with a trailer. Tests are to be run without the use of trailer brakes.

...

I would have to see the chart and other information to make any conclusions.

The wording you posted talked about tow vehicle braking performance with an unbraked trailer, and talked about tow vehicle and trailer combination braking performance with a braked tag trailer, as well as with a braked gooseneck/fifth wheel trailer.

FMVSS tests and certifies the braking performance of all motor vehicles, at their GVWR weight, not at a GCWR weight, and not at the sum of the front and rear axle weight ratings weight (except for commercial vehicles who's GVWR equals the sum of their axle weight ratings).

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

jshupe wrote:
Their truck has a GCVWR of 31100#. They will be under that limit, which is the one to look at when it comes to safe braking. Trailer brakes fail, and I'm pulling these speculative stats out of thin air, but the rate of occurrence is probably far less than a tire blowing out, and no more often than a leaf breaking or suspension bolt shearing. Not something to be overly concerned with as long as you are under GCVWR, inspect your trailer regularly, and take care of your rig.

The truck's brakes are NOT designed to stop it's GCWR weight. They are designed to stop it's GVWR weight. Big difference.

They're not designed to, but unbraked trailer braking is part of the equation for determining GCWR. From section 4.5 of J2807:

Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle
Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating wrote:

4.5 Combination Braking
This section defines combination braking performance requirements at GCWR. This section should be used to determine any or all of the following TWR/GCWR limits: maximum unbraked trailer limit, conventional braked trailer limit and fifth wheel/gooseneck braked trailer limit.

4.5.1 Combination Braking Performance Requirement Summary
The tow-vehicle brake system, in conjunction with appropriate test trailer(s) per 4.1, shall be capable of meeting certain braking requirements for the specified GCWR. The following table summarizes metrics, requirements and test methods for specific performance attributes. The purpose of 4.5 is to determine the suitability of the tow-vehicle brake system in conjunction with a trailer. Tests are to be run without the use of trailer brakes.

...

Cummins12V98 wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
All of B&W's products are US made, that I'm aware of.

So far, everything I've bought from Curt has been US made too.

I prefer to do business with both Curt and B&W, rather than Reese, Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch, Fulton, Tow Power, and all the other companies that operate under that corporate umbrella, since most of their stuff is made in China, and doesn't cost any less than the American made products of Curt and B&W.

I too will buy CURT but NOT there 5er hitches as they are ALL Made in China.

I feel that way about it too, now that I know.

Me Again wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
All of B&W's products are US made, that I'm aware of.

So far, everything I've bought from Curt has been US made too.

I prefer to do business with both Curt and B&W, rather than Reese, Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch, Fulton, Tow Power, and all the other companies that operate under that corporate umbrella, since most of their stuff is made in China, and doesn't cost any less than the American made products of Curt and B&W.

Only Curt's receiver hitches are still made in the USA. The 5th wheel hitches are all made in china. Call them like I did and they are confirm it to you like they did for me. Our son is a Curt wholesaler and I could have gotten a really good price on one. However I got down to Hijacker and B&W. Went with B&W on a Demco picture frame.

Chris

Thanks. I did not know that about their 5th wheel hitches!