GVWR, GCWR, & GVW

[clev]

Every time that I think I have a handle on these, they seem to explode in my mind. I know what each of the letters stand for, Gross Combined Weight Rating,........etc., and I know what they mean. What's confusing me, is the application of the ratings.

Example: My truck, 6.7 diesel, 3.55's, srw, has a GCWR of 23,500 pounds, a GVWR of 11.5k, and the truck weighs ~7.5k. If I have an 18.5k fifth wheel with pin weight of 3k, and drop the pin in the back of the truck, the truck now weighs 10.5k. The actual trailer weight after hook up is 15.5k. If the total rig was sitting on a scale, the total weight would be 26k. Is the truck overloaded? The 10.5 does not exceed the GVWR, and the 15.5k trailer does not exceed the max trailer weight of 15.7k pounds. Is the trailer weight, the weight as it's hooked up with the 3k sitting on the truck? Or, is it the total sitting weight of the trailer, unhooked?

[Slownsy]

A fitting end.
Frank.

[CWSWine]

Lot of you guys are going to learn a lot if you just will spend the time to watch the video below put put by the RVSEF (RV Safety and Education Foundation) that been weight RVs on rallys since 1993.


Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

Matching Your Truck to Your RV

[wilber1]

tinner12002 wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
I've never heard the term "towed weight" before but it makes sense that hitch manufacturers would use some combination of towed weight and pin weight in order to rate their hitches.
'
The placard on my Draw-Tite 16K slider reads, "Max gross trailer weight 16,000 lbs. Max pin weight 4000 lbs." No mention of towed weight.

That's two different things unless your 16000# RV has a pin weight of 4000# then your maxed out on your hitch ratings even though your RV now may only weigh 12000# at the axles, at least that's the way I understand it. The 4000# is still part of your RV and is loaded on your hitch in a pull mode.

Absolutely, they are two different limits, it doesn't mean I can tow a 20,000 lb fifth wheel. It means I can tow a 16,000 lb fifth wheel as long as my pin weight is 4000 lbs or less.

[Walaby]

I followed this with great interest, in particular because at some point, I will probably upgrade to a 5er, although that's a long ways in the future.

I think the one point I find very interesting is, OP asked a question, and as a result, one would expect to get some answers that one doesn't agree with. BUT, when you ask, you have to deal with answers you don't want to hear.

In the end, I don't think anyone is arguing that OP is the one who gets to make the decision, and is the only one who can make the decision. And yes, OP gets to have his own interpretation, which he did. When you share your interpretation, and ask for others to comment on your interpretation, then by default, you get what you got. If OP wasn't interested in other interpretations, then the question should have never been posted.

This happens a lot of forums, and unfortunately it is what it is. I find it equally amusing that some can post something like I've researched the need for EGR monitoring and asked lots of people, and got different answers. So, they come to a forum with thousands of different people, and expect something different?

I have to say the debate of what a trailer weighs seems somewhat comical. The trailer weighs what the trailer weighs, and just because some of the weight is sitting on the rear axles (ie pin weight), doesn't change what the trailer weighs. And, the truck still has to pull/move/exert energy to pull that trailer. The energy exerted to move it doesn't change because some of it is in the bed of the truck. At least that's how it would seem to me.

The curt website defines Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) as
the total weight of a trailer when fully loaded in its actual towing condition; typically used together with tongue weight to help determine whether or not the trailer can safely be towed by a particular vehicle;

I assume tongue weight and pin weight are interchangeable, since I couldn't find anything to say that PIN weight is subtracted from the Gross Trailer Weight.....

EDIT: The definition on the Curt website would seem to align with the belief of most people that the total GTW is the trailer weight, as it sits, fully loaded. And the Tongue/Pin weight, albeit a separate calculation, is not subtracted from the GTW. But, the two variables are used together to determine if a vehicle is capable of pulling whatever it is. Which is what I think Wilber1 and others, are trying to say.

You will never get a consensus on discussions like this. But if you are looking for validation that what you are doing is OK.. you can generally find someone that will agree with you on just about anything.

Mike

[tinner12002]

Just a side note, I'm not sure how the hitch manufacturers come up with their ratings but when my hitch says its rated to pull 25K then I plan on using that number as the gross weight of what I can safely pull, and that includes pin weight as I'm pulling it also at the hitch point. I may have 3500# sitting on the hitch but I'm still pulling it as part of my RV.

[tinner12002]

wilber1 wrote:
I've never heard the term "towed weight" before but it makes sense that hitch manufacturers would use some combination of towed weight and pin weight in order to rate their hitches.
'
The placard on my Draw-Tite 16K slider reads, "Max gross trailer weight 16,000 lbs. Max pin weight 4000 lbs." No mention of towed weight.

That's two different things unless your 16000# RV has a pin weight of 4000# then your maxed out on your hitch ratings even though your RV now may only weigh 12000# at the axles, at least that's the way I understand it. The 4000# is still part of your RV and is loaded on your hitch in a pull mode.

[CALandLIN]

There are all sorts of perceptions and "he said - she said" statements in these kinds of forums. Here is a reference of how "Uncle" says it.

Definitions

[otrfun]

clev wrote:
Good grief members, let this die. I have agreed with the definition of gcwr since the beginning, I have agreed that my example exceeds the gcwr of the TV, I have agreed with pin and axle weight definitions. The only disagreement is that "I choose" to accept the definition of 'towed' weight as defined by Curt. It does not change gcwr and it does not change payload. It's "My choice"; you don't have to accept Curt's definition. Geez! Give it a rest.

I have no problems with Curt's explanation of tow dynamics. The problem lies with your interpretation thereof.

[clev]

Good grief members, let this die. I have agreed with the definition of gcwr since the beginning, I have agreed that my example exceeds the gcwr of the TV, I have agreed with pin and axle weight definitions. The only disagreement is that "I choose" to accept the definition of 'towed' weight as defined by Curt. It does not change gcwr and it does not change payload. It's "My choice"; you don't have to accept Curt's definition. Geez! Give it a rest.

[Allworth]

I suggest you go to Trailer Life's website and reread the definition of fifth-wheel tow ratings.

[wilber1]

I've never heard the term "towed weight" before but it makes sense that hitch manufacturers would use some combination of towed weight and pin weight in order to rate their hitches.
'
The placard on my Draw-Tite 16K slider reads, "Max gross trailer weight 16,000 lbs. Max pin weight 4000 lbs." No mention of towed weight.

[otrfun]

clev wrote:
My quote: " 'towed' weight of 15.5 k. That has no effect on gcwr, and I know that"

Your entire post is basically what I have repeatedly posted.

If you're referencing my last post, then clearly we have a failure to communicate. If not, my apologies. Please disregard the next paragraph.

Your personal definition of "tow(ed) weight" is what the rest of us call AXLE WEIGHT. AXLE WEIGHT has EVERYTHING to do with GCWR.

[CALandLIN]

Beverley&Ken wrote:
Quote " Fact: the trucks specs will allow up to 3700 pounds on the rear axle. I'm good on everything except gcwr. I'll have to load very carefully. "
Is that 3700 pounds the rear axle rating , which would include the weight of the truck,(box, fuel, suspension etc, hitch and cargo) or is it the cargo carrying capacity not counting whats all ready part of the truck?

Ken

Maybe you should research CDN vehicle safety regulations. They often follow along with USA regulations but Ontario does have strict vehicle inspection regulations and they are currently being rewritten or maybe already completed.

[clev]

My quote: " 'towed' weight of 15.5 k. That has no effect on gcwr, and I know that"

Your entire post is basically what I have repeatedly posted.