My Epic Repair Project

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

Well, just finished my big repair project. I previously posted about my broken black water tank in my 3 year old 5th wheel.

I first noticed this problem on July 29th and I finished today so 1 month! The job ended up being much more time consuming than I thought it would be.

It was easy to remove the coroplast. I did cut it into about 5 sections. 3 of the cuts I was able to make where there are cross members, which made reattachment much easier, and 2 were not.

Removing the tank was frustrating because there are 4 different connections to deal with. The toilet inlet, air vent, flush valve and the outlet. I had to partially remove the grey tank just to have room to remove the black tank. It also required emptying out the pass through storage and removing a wall to access the drain and vent pipes from above.

Once it was finally out and inspected and pondered I decided to order a new one versus trying to repair this. I found the exact OM tank though Amazon and got it almost half what the manufacturer's direct distributor wanted with the added bonus that they were charging $120 for shipping and, as an Amazon Prime member I paid $0 shipping.

The longest delay in this project was acquiring all the fittings and parts I would need for reassembly. No one local had a couple of the pieces so back to special ordering.

Replacing the tank was even harder than removing it because it's discharge and the gray water discharged are joined with a "Y" fitting. There's only so much room in there and very difficult to maneuver the pipes and fittings.

While I waited for parts I took the opportunity to do some clean up in the belly like rerunning heater hoses and remove excess length and kinks! I also changed out the 1/8" silver bubble insulation with 1" R-Tech rigid foam board insulation.

I also added a BAL Hide-A-Spare, a new storage tube for my sewer hose and ran power from my inverter in the forward compartment, to the rear wall of the trailer in the kitchen. So, I kept busy.

I reassembled a section at a time. The sections that were not at a cross member required fabricating something to attach the 2 edges of coroplast to so I used 2 pieces of aluminum angle stock (an idea I stole from someone else who did some under belly work so a shout out to him). On the joints where there was a cross member I still used 2" wide flat aluminum stock to cover the edges and screwed it into the cross member with self taping screws. I also used a full roll of Gorilla Tape (absolutely love this stuff, way better than basic duct tape). Then I reapplied expanding foam insulation everywhere something sticks through the coroplast.

One thing I really want to pass on is I got so much miss-information from a couple of local RV repair facilities, especially my local Camping World. I couldn't believe how many wrong parts they tried to sell me telling me "that's the way we would do it"! Man am I glad I didn't take it to them to fix!

Anyway, 4 weeks with the last 2 being 6 - 8 hours a day and it's all done! I am beyond thrilled.

I took almost 100 pictures and many won't make too much sense but they are in chronological order from the very beginning to the end.

Here's the link and if you choose to look and have any questions about what you're looking at or what I did, feel free to ask.

Let's see if this link works:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/blown96ws6/slideshow/Trailer%20underbelly%20holding%20tank%20repair

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

Good for you. Sounds like pretty logical troubleshooting.

Yeah, it will likely take someone dropping the front of the belly covering to see what's going on. That's exactly what the first few pictures in my photo link show me doing. At that point I had just taken the screws out of the front and maybe 5 or 6 feet back along each side. That was all I needed to see where my leak was. To be most honest, if I wasn't so danged picky I could have left all the insulation alone, after hosing it off, and just dropped a few more feet of the belly and tried to replace my tank and just zip it right back up.

I'll be eager to hear how it goes for you. Now enjoy the Holiday weekend!

[CarolineGates]

I will be sure to let you know if my service plan covers it. I think that is important. I had one with my Alfa, and found out that everything (everything) was "wear and tear" and that the insurance co. seldom paid out a cent. I got some money back on that contract. I was promised by Porters' RV in Coos Bay, OR that their policies were not like that. Will figure it out in a day or so. Meanwhile, I took your advice and put a hose into the toilet (rather than just using the clean out hose...this way I can clean out the pipes leading from toilet to black water tank. First I kept the valves open (not using gray water system) and the water coming out from the black water tank was very clear. Now I have the value to black water tank closed and I am not seeing a huge pouring out of water at the under belly. Maybe it has to go to a certain level in the black water tank to start coming out the under belly, which would mean some kind of leak in the black water tank (or it could be in a pipe of some kind).

Here is what I have since done (oops moment). I closed the black water and put the hose in the toilet. My oops moment is that I didn't realize it doesn't take long for the tank to fill....and went outside to look underneath at progress and realized there was water coming from lots of places. Turn off water and looked in bay and realize it was getting wet. Toilet was overflowing! My big mistake! Opened the black water and it was 85% clear water coming out. That is good. And the water out of the toiled was not that bad. Cleaned up a lot of stuff and am drying it out in basement with heaters.

So, what really is a quandary...,.apparently the black water tank filled up. So where was the original brown water coming from? Has to be a pipe? I really just wanted to clean out the black tank as you recommended (it is CLEAN) AND try to figure out where the leak is coming from. I know it is not the gray water system. And maybe not even the black water tank. A leaking pipe? Someone will obviously have to check it out next week. Meanwhile I think I can continue using my sinks, will use the park's shower amd toilet and my own portable toilet at night if necessary. Did I do good (other than letting toilet hose overflow)?

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

CarolineGates wrote:
Maybe buying a Cougar was a bad idea. Thanks for your comments.

Well, Cougar (Keystone) doesn't make the waste tanks. A company named Amrei-Kart does. My tank was broken. It appeared to be a stress or, more likely, a manufacturer defect. Can't say I blame "Cougar" if that's the case. Probably best to wait and see what is causing your leak before getting too worked up over who's fault it is. I'm hopeful your service plan will cover the repair. I have one too and I never even thought about checking with them to see if they would cover it. DUH!

[CarolineGates]

Maybe buying a Cougar was a bad idea. Thanks for your comments.

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

Caroline,

If you use the link I provided, in my first post you should get a pretty good idea of what it looks like under yours. Mine is a 2011 Cougar.

If it is your black tank, I would continue to camp and just not use it. I might take some time to flush copious amounts of fresh water through the toilet to try and flush as much as possible through the drain and out whatever leak you might have thereby flushing out the underbelly. Once done and the area cleaned up, the smell should dissipate.

Once the holiday weekend is over then I would contact your extended service provider and advise them of the problem then find the most trusted RV repair facility you can and bring the trailer to them.

Based on my work and what I've discovered along the way, be prepared to be without the trailer for some weeks as this is not an easy job but, as I proved, it is certainly repairable.

Best of Luck!

[CarolineGates]

Hi, I have a disaster here with my 2010 Cougar fifth wheel.

Went outside this a.m. and there was what appears to be black water coming out through the under belly covering.

It is a holiday weekend.

What kind of RV do you have?

I made a call to Porter's RV in Coos Bay, OR and they are open but no techs. I have an expensive repair contract I got when I bought my Cougar. I am hoping it will help me out, still don't know for sure.

I think it is the black water tank or it could be a pipe of some kind in or attached to the black water tank.

I maintain my black water tank as I should, it was a mess when I bought it second hand two summers ago, no one had ever cleaned it. Took a week and a lot of work but it finally got cleaned.

I can't understand how the black water tank could open up and expel all of its contents into the underbelly. I emptied it yesterday a.m. but used it after that. I clean it out with the hose/jets every time I empty it.

Today I closed the black water valve pull. I also closed the gray water pull and ran water in my kitchen and bath room sinks for ten min. Then I kept black closed and opened gray and lots of clear water came out (looking through the valve hose adapter clear plastic thingy). There is still water dripping from the underbelly but just drips, not streams. I can't smell a thing but neighbors said they smelled sewer, so I am guessing it is the black water tank or a pipe involved in the black water tank.

I am age 73 and by myself in an RV park (Bandon RV Park, South Oregon Coast). I have available to me the park's toilets/showers. I am wondering if it would be OK for me to use the faucets and shower since it appears the gray water tank/plumbing is OK. Any thots on that? Also, I have a nice toilet chair with bucket underneath used for people who can't sit on a regular toilet. I can use that at night since I don't like to go out at night. So if I can use the gray water system it would be very helpful, plus my chair I am good to go except for using the RV toilet.

What can I expect to see when the underbelly (not sure that that is called, it is a curved setup of some kind not sure of its name) is opened up? I wish I knew what it looks like under there. I do not like the fact that plumbing and other systems can't be accessed, such as the hot water tank, furnace, etc. I do not travel in my RV, just live in it full time. I had an Alfa before the Cougar, an older model. It was having problems and I decided to get a newer RV. There is NO REASON why this black water situation should be happening in a 2010 model of any kind of fifth wheel. Very upsetting to me.

So, not knowing what things look like under there, what are the scenarios that could be happening. And someone said something about there being lots of insulation down there. Would it actually be sitting on that sling underbelly and have to be removed?

Well, that is enough for now. I am trying to consider the good stuff and not the bad on this 3-day weekend when things always go wrong and you can't find anyone to help.

ANY and all comments are very very appreciated, anything you have to say is fine, I will take all I can get.

[Charlie_D_]

Nice pictures and thank you. Keep an eye on the tubing in frame 57. Those type of hose you have is relatively hard and in some cases will not seal well or start to leak after some time.

[bpounds]

Very impressed with your work. I hope I never need to do something similar, but I know who to call if I do. 🙂

And I agree with you, that crack was a vacuum forming defect from the factory.

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

TriumphGuy wrote:
Major props and two thumbs up. That was a serious job and way to go for taking the time and dealing with the headaches.

I can echo what you said about misinformation. It's hard enough to get this right with tracking down all the right parts, then being led astray makes it even more difficult. I've often found the internet a better resource than my local parts and service guys. Why would I pay them to do a half baked job?

Thanks.

I needed to replace the seals for the sliding waste valves. I went on Camping World's web site and luckily they had a video clip from Valtera all about their valves. He went into great detail about the different models and how you can not interchange the seals between the older model and the newer "Blade" series. Cool! So I call my local CW and speak directly with the parts desk and he tells me he has a set. I take the 25 minute drive and when I get to the parts desk he has the old style! What? I even brought my old seals and show him they are a totally different design. he tells me not to worry, these are the seals they use on ALL THEIR REPAIRS!

Needless to say I did not buy them and when I returned home I called Valtera direct and they confirm that the seals are not interchangeable and will cause jams if used. I wonder how many people have had CW repair a leaking seal only to have the problem repeat over and over again.

That's just one story. I've got many more of the same. 🙂

[TriumphGuy]

Major props and two thumbs up. That was a serious job and way to go for taking the time and dealing with the headaches.

I can echo what you said about misinformation. It's hard enough to get this right with tracking down all the right parts, then being led astray makes it even more difficult. I've often found the internet a better resource than my local parts and service guys. Why would I pay them to do a half baked job?

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

rjxj wrote:
Good job. Good job on the pics too. Do you had to run with full tanks at times?

I doubt I have ever run with full tanks. If we are on a road trip where we might be at each spot maybe 1 or 2 days, I will go a few stops before emptying but never past 3/4. If you are trying to figure out how that crack developed in the first place, my money is on manufacturer defect. I found nothing that could have caused it. I did re-drill to relocate the support that runs along that side of the tank so it is closer to the body of the tank. The tank flanges are just the ABS with no special support or thickness.

shadows4 wrote:
Awesome work Paul!! Looks better than new. How did you like the Horst probes? None of my tank monitors works and haven't since I have owned the trailer. Also what did you think of the Bal-Hide a spare? Been thinking of doing both of these mods. Good luck, John

I was impressed with how different the Horst probes are over the OEM probes. I don't know if you've ever seen the OEM style but the contact point in the tank is just basically a button. I haven't used the holding tank, other than to fill and empty with fresh water 3 or 4 times checking for leaks so I don't really know how they will perform under normal use.

I really like the Hide-A-Spare. It does exactly as advertised. It was fairly easy to install only hampered by the aluminum skirt around my trailer (and most other newer units) that hides the main frame (in my case I beam). As with anything, measure twice, drill once. I found it difficult to find good reference points to make sure I located the 2 mounting brackets properly. Since mine is in front of the axles, I used the front landing gear as reference points. I secured the brackets with 2 self tapers and 2 bolts with lock nuts.

[Jerry_B]

Outstanding work Poppy. Thanks for the write up and pics. For those with a Cougar, you might want to book mark this.

[shadows4]

Awesome work Paul!! Looks better than new. How did you like the Horst probes? None of my tank monitors works and haven't since I have owned the trailer. Also what did you think of the Bal-Hide a spare? Been thinking of doing both of these mods. Good luck, John

[azrving]

Good job. Good job on the pics too. Have you had to run with full tanks at times?