The Tax Man

[kab449]

I traded my fifth wheel for a MH but still have my F250 TD and various work trailers. I want to give a heads up to any PA members on this forum and to anyone traveling through PA. In our governments quest to increase their coffers they have embarked on enforcement of the GCWR registration of truck trailer combinations. If the trailer you tow is more than 10000 lbs you have to register your truck for the total GCWR of your combo or the mfg stated GCWR for your truck. My truck has a 23500 manufacturer stated GCWR so this is what I have to register my truck for to be legal when towing. It currently costs $405 per year. My registration also gives a GVWR for the truck only of 10000 lbs for LEO when not towing. Fines are really high and all the new troopers coming out of the academy are well versed on this.
It was also stated that DOT will be checking those large fifth wheels that travel through the state, requiring stops at the weigh stations.
Anything to fill the state coffers. Welcome to the land of taxes.

[2008Wildcat]

Well, I did a little digging on the PA DMV website today.

Here is the quote for licensing....

CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).

This means that you have to have the Class A Non commercial license if your truck and trailer is over 26,000 lbs, and the trailer has a GVW of over 10,000 lbs.

In my personal case, my truck GVW is 11,000 lbs and my trailer is 14,000, so I am OK with my standard Class C license.


I looked up registration, which is what this thread was originally about, and it states for vehicle only. You are registering the tow vehicle for GVW not GCVW. (unless hauling commercial)

[jrs1871]

I think what you will find is that there is a lot of misinformation or lack of understanding the statutes out there when trying to figure out the correct meaning of weight when tagging your truck and RV. At least that is what we just went through in Kansas. Our truck empty weight per the title is 7420. Our new trailer GVWR is 14220 although our actual loaded weight when we hit the road is just under 12000 (verified by scales). When we went to correct how our truck was taxed (the original title said it was a car), they said we needed a 16-20M tag which covers the GCWR and they wanted $291 just for the tag with property tax on top of that.
I knew that wasn't the way our previous truck and fifth wheel was tagged and the weights were nearly identical. So I checked the statute and it states the trucks tag must cover the truck and the towed trailer except RV's for personal use only are limited to 12,000 pounds total. Well it seems most motor vehicle and appraiser's offices miss that little sub section of the statute. I even called the state dept. of motor vehicles and the gal I talked to was not aware of that sub section. Long story short, I took a copy of the statute with me when we renewed the tags and MV agreed and reduced the tag to 12,000. The appraiser's office still insisted it needed to be 16-20M.
We now keep a copy of that statute in the truck so in the likelihood (probably pretty rare) that we are ever stopped for a weight check, we have the proof of why it is tagged the way it is.
We are also on pretty firm ground because that truck never tows anything except the trailer. That might be where the original poster came under the other tagging provisions because he said he pulled other trailers. In KS, if you pull other trailers, agricultural or commercial, you fall under the heavier weight requirements.

[2008Wildcat]

kab449 wrote:

2008Wildcat wrote:
There is no GCVW registration in PA on privately owned vehicles.

Tell that to the State Police when they stop you. If the trailer is over 10,000 lbs you better have a truck pulling it that is capable load wise and also properly registered to pull it. The interpretation of the law is up to them. My buddy after being stopped pulling his fifth wheel, went right to PennDot in Harrisburg and got the explanation that he needed his Duramax 2500 registered as a 23500 GCWR at $405 per year for tags to legally pull his 13000 lb fifth wheel.
If you have a trailer 10,000 lbs or under you do not need to license for the GCWR.

I work for an RV dealership, and have had lengthy conversations with the PA State Police barracks 4 miles from our dealership....

It may be interpretation, that applies to the Police as well, but you will win if you fight it. GVW applies to registration and licensing.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Allworth wrote:
So many words! So little information.

Call the DMV.

"Call the DMV." - Now that's a laugh.

How many different answers from (name a state) DMV would you like?..:S

~

[rhagfo]

kab449 wrote:

2008Wildcat wrote:
There is no GCVW registration in PA on privately owned vehicles.

Tell that to the State Police when they stop you. If the trailer is over 10,000 lbs you better have a truck pulling it that is capable load wise and also properly registered to pull it. The interpretation of the law is up to them. My buddy after being stopped pulling his fifth wheel, went right to PennDot in Harrisburg and got the explanation that he needed his Duramax 2500 registered as a 23500 GCWR at $405 per year for tags to legally pull his 13000 lb fifth wheel.
If you have a trailer 10,000 lbs or under you do not need to license for the GCWR.

It might be time for your friend to get a good lawyer!! ROI may be a couple of years, but I would at least have the lawyer look at the statute that the SP are using to collect the fee.

Most time the 10,000# rule is for commercial only! California requires a license endorsement for towing a 5er over 10,000#, but I have never seen anything about TV registration for GCVWR.

[kab449]

2008Wildcat wrote:
There is no GCVW registration in PA on privately owned vehicles.

Tell that to the State Police when they stop you. If the trailer is over 10,000 lbs you better have a truck pulling it that is capable load wise and also properly registered to pull it. The interpretation of the law is up to them. My buddy after being stopped pulling his fifth wheel, went right to PennDot in Harrisburg and got the explanation that he needed his Duramax 2500 registered as a 23500 GCWR at $405 per year for tags to legally pull his 13000 lb fifth wheel.
If you have a trailer 10,000 lbs or under you do not need to license for the GCWR.

[fj12ryder]

I dunno about options, but having that post stay around long probably isn't one of them. 🙂

[TakingThe5th]

You are right fj12ryder and I'm technically off-topic. Retracted!

[2008Wildcat]

There is no GCVW registration in PA on privately owned vehicles.

You can, however, be cited for towing over your GCVW rated DRIVERS LICENSE.

Most people have a Class C license, which is good for single/combo less than 26,001 lbs. If the GVW of your truck is 11,000 lbs, and GVW of your trailer is 16,000 lbs, technically you should have a non-commercial clause CDL license for the higher GCVW rating.

[Seattle_Lion]

RoyB wrote:
I guess going BIG BOY TRUCKS and TRAILERS sure has it downsides...

Kinda makes me like my smaller footprint setup more and more... I have all the modern things the big boys have just less move around room inside. Gets great gas mileage too... Certainly don't have to worry about the LEO's



Roy Ken

Why are you posting on the fifth wheel forum? That trailer isn't relevant here.

[greende]

Tom&Dee wrote:
People, REMEMBER if you are legal in your HOME state as far as licensing and registration you are legal in all fifty states. One state cannot enact legislation for out of state private vehicles. Don't confuse your private RV with commercial laws.

What he said^^^^^^^^^^^

[Tom_Dee]

People, REMEMBER if you are legal in your HOME state as far as licensing and registration you are legal in all fifty states. One state cannot enact legislation for out of state private vehicles. Don't confuse your private RV with commercial laws.

[todouble]

I live in pa and have my truck and fiver registered here as well. Just bought the fiver so I don't know what the dealer registered it for. I do know my truck is registered by weight class. Class 1-5 I believe. This is the first time I have ever heard of registering for your gross combined weight. New or this pertains to commercial vehicles only!

[Allworth]

So many words! So little information.

Call the DMV.