Tow limit concern

[Lazy_D]

New to the RV world and looking for advise from the pros

So here is what I have and the trailer I'm looking at. I had posted this info over in the toy hauler weight section but figured it's really not exclusive to that section.

I have a 2007 Chevy Silverado classic 2500HD Duramax CCSB 4X4. The manual says 14,200 max tow and 22,000 GCWR. I have E rated tires at 80psi of a total capacity of 6084 lbs rating. I weighed my truck full of fule 2 passengers and my B&W companion slider at 7880 lbs and a rear axle weight of 3420.

The trailer I'm looking at is a 2013 Crossroads Elevation 3612 stickered at 11,572 from the factory not sure of the exact pin weight but the NADA spec says 10,910 lbs dry and 2400 lbs pin.

Am I calculating this correct that I need to limit my trailer to 14,120 lbs to keep from exceeding my 22,000, and limited pin weight to 2,664 lbs?

Is this trailer going to be pushing it once loaded? I guess it also depends on just how much gear I load up. Since it is a toy hauler if I keep more to the rear will it be fine?

Thanks in advance for helping this rookie.

[rhagfo]

Dave H M wrote:
It all comes down to whether you go with Ratings, a little over on Trucks GVWR and under the others OR just hook up and go!

Personally I pay attention to Tire Ratings/Loading.

What the ole biscut said. My F 250 came with 17 inch tires. if I would have had an accurate crystal ball, I would probably went with an F 350 SRW. Last winter i had one of those General Grabbers separate on me. i just weighed the thing again and am 530 lbs under the max on each tire. Just got back from the tire shop yesterday and put two Firestone Transforce on the back for the hey of it and good luck. Course my dog is overweight and that little margin will be shaved. :h

I can't help but think about that tire rating when I go around the curves in the Smokies.

Yes, one the worst moves the big three made in the early 2000's. Changing from 16" wheels to 17" wheels, 265/75-16 have a 3,415# rating the 265/70-17 they replaced them with have a 3,195# rating, that is an additional 220# per tire with the 16".

In addition to that the 245/75-16 standard tires for my TV have a 3,042# rating I have an additional 373# per tire, 746# additional safety capacity over stated and observed rear axle rating.

[Dave_H_M]

It all comes down to whether you go with Ratings, a little over on Trucks GVWR and under the others OR just hook up and go!

Personally I pay attention to Tire Ratings/Loading.

What the ole biscut said. My F 250 came with 17 inch tires. if I would have had an accurate crystal ball, I would probably went with an F 350 SRW. Last winter i had one of those General Grabbers separate on me. i just weighed the thing again and am 530 lbs under the max on each tire. Just got back from the tire shop yesterday and put two Firestone Transforce on the back for the hey of it and good luck. Course my dog is overweight and that little margin will be shaved. :h

I can't help but think about that tire rating when I go around the curves in the Smokies.

[kyle86]

This is very good advice!!! Similar to what others old me when I asked this question.

"Your truck is marginal for the trailer you're looking at. If you change your tires to heavier rated ones and possibly add some air bags or heavier springs you could successfully tow that trailer. Would you be over the GVWR? Yes. Does that bother you? Only you know.
My personal rig is a truck camper on a '05 Chevy dually. Like many TC owners I'm well over my GVWR of 11,400 pounds. I've logged many thousands of trouble free miles at about 13,100 pounds on this truck. I'm not over my tire, axle, or even tagged weight so all is perfectly legal."

[kyle86]

It's. DMAX 2500 HD with air bags. It's laughable to think he should be looking at travel trailers. I we t through the whole weights thing as well however mine is a 2500 non hd gas. I decided to base my decisions on the gawr and going over the gvwr at little is okay. The axle rating on your truck as said previously is limited by the tire size. There are a lot of people who give the numbers no thought and just hook & go. Then there are folks who are so strict with the numbers they wouldn't tow more than a 25' travel trailer with that truck. I think because you are considering the numbers at least puts you in the middle. As said above you will just have to decide which rating numbers to go by. Great thread yall!

[rhagfo]

avvidclif1 wrote:

majorgator wrote:
I read the OP's post a lot differently than everyone else on here. I read the first line that said they're new to the RV world, then skipped down to the line about the trailer they're looking at.

IMO, I would not begin my RV life by going straight to such a large trailer. Start smaller, get it figured out, and work your way up to something larger. I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who's first experience pulling an RV is a 36' fifth wheel.

Also known as spend a lot of money along the way. It's a lot cheaper to start out with the trailer you want rather than buying your way up to it. Learning to pull and maneuver it can be learned with a little empty parking lot practice.

Well many wait until retirement to decide to go RVing. Many also decide after a year or so they don't like it and create great buys for the rest of us. Really no different than those that go out and buy a 40' Class A as their 1st RV.

To the towing capacity, sounds like the TV in question was a standard 2500, non camper package. Really needs bigger tires and better springs, AND a smaller 5er.
I would much rather see that 2500 towing a 12,000# to 13,000# 5er than a 38' 11,000# TT, the 5er is FAR more stable, and a better towing experience.
I tow and carry on stock suspension a 32' 12,360# GVWR 5er. It runs about 11,000+ wet and 2,200 to 2,300# pin. This is with a 2001 2500, ZERO issues, still plenty of axle and tire capacity.
Not a recommendation, just what works for us, the OP needs to make the decision for himself.

[Lazy_D]

KD4UPL wrote:
You started off great in your post. It's a shame everyone confused you.
You have to realize there are two different methods of calculating what a truck is capable of. Some people look at the GVWR and have a fit if you dare go over it. They maintain that the GVWR is the absolute maximum a truck should ever carry.
Other people do what you started out doing: you looked at your truck's tire rating and axle weight to determine how much extra capacity you had for pin weight. This will almost always result in a bigger number than going by the GVWR. This method is the one that the professional trucking industry typically goes by: tire weights and axle weights.
The rear axle in your truck is an 11.5" made by American Axle Manufacturing. They rate this axle assembly at 10,000 pounds. Obviously on your truck the tires are the limiting factor. Your could actually upgrade to 19.5" wheels and tires and be able to realize almost all of your axle capacity.
As to the question of "will you be pushing it?" Yes, you will be.
Your truck is marginal for the trailer you're looking at. If you change your tires to heavier rated ones and possibly add some air bags or heavier springs you could successfully tow that trailer. Would you be over the GVWR? Yes. Does that bother you? Only you know.
My personal rig is a truck camper on a '05 Chevy dually. Like many TC owners I'm well over my GVWR of 11,400 pounds. I've logged many thousands of trouble free miles at about 13,100 pounds on this truck. I'm not over my tire, axle, or even tagged weight so all is perfectly legal.

Thanks for the good advise. Yup, I failed to mention I do have Air Lift bags with the hot shot tank and cab controls. I didn't think the bags would really add to my capacity. I added them hoping to help level and add stability.

[Cummins12V98]

majorgator wrote:
I read the OP's post a lot differently than everyone else on here. I read the first line that said they're new to the RV world, then skipped down to the line about the trailer they're looking at.

IMO, I would not begin my RV life by going straight to such a large trailer. Start smaller, get it figured out, and work your way up to something larger. I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who's first experience pulling an RV is a 36' fifth wheel.

Proper tow vehicle to begin with makes a huge difference. Starting out with a marginal setup I totally agree!

[majorgator]

avvidclif1 wrote:

majorgator wrote:
I read the OP's post a lot differently than everyone else on here. I read the first line that said they're new to the RV world, then skipped down to the line about the trailer they're looking at.

IMO, I would not begin my RV life by going straight to such a large trailer. Start smaller, get it figured out, and work your way up to something larger. I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who's first experience pulling an RV is a 36' fifth wheel.

Also known as spend a lot of money along the way. It's a lot cheaper to start out with the trailer you want rather than buying your way up to it. Learning to pull and maneuver it can be learned with a little empty parking lot practice.

How do you know what you want the first time? And sure you can learn some basics in a parking lot, but there won't be any semi's passing you at 75 MPH in the empty lot behind the mall. I stick with my original statement. Buy something a little smaller, nice used model, and spend a year or so learning what you like, don't like, need, don't need, and what it takes to make you comfortable. With experience and knowledge gained, you will be better off on your next unit. If you're worried about losing a little bit of money along the way, then you're looking at the wrong hobby.

[avvidclif1]

majorgator wrote:
I read the OP's post a lot differently than everyone else on here. I read the first line that said they're new to the RV world, then skipped down to the line about the trailer they're looking at.

IMO, I would not begin my RV life by going straight to such a large trailer. Start smaller, get it figured out, and work your way up to something larger. I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who's first experience pulling an RV is a 36' fifth wheel.

Also known as spend a lot of money along the way. It's a lot cheaper to start out with the trailer you want rather than buying your way up to it. Learning to pull and maneuver it can be learned with a little empty parking lot practice.

[majorgator]

I read the OP's post a lot differently than everyone else on here. I read the first line that said they're new to the RV world, then skipped down to the line about the trailer they're looking at.

IMO, I would not begin my RV life by going straight to such a large trailer. Start smaller, get it figured out, and work your way up to something larger. I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who's first experience pulling an RV is a 36' fifth wheel.

[KD4UPL]

You started off great in your post. It's a shame everyone confused you.
You have to realize there are two different methods of calculating what a truck is capable of. Some people look at the GVWR and have a fit if you dare go over it. They maintain that the GVWR is the absolute maximum a truck should ever carry.
Other people do what you started out doing: you looked at your truck's tire rating and axle weight to determine how much extra capacity you had for pin weight. This will almost always result in a bigger number than going by the GVWR. This method is the one that the professional trucking industry typically goes by: tire weights and axle weights.
The rear axle in your truck is an 11.5" made by American Axle Manufacturing. They rate this axle assembly at 10,000 pounds. Obviously on your truck the tires are the limiting factor. Your could actually upgrade to 19.5" wheels and tires and be able to realize almost all of your axle capacity.
As to the question of "will you be pushing it?" Yes, you will be.
Your truck is marginal for the trailer you're looking at. If you change your tires to heavier rated ones and possibly add some air bags or heavier springs you could successfully tow that trailer. Would you be over the GVWR? Yes. Does that bother you? Only you know.
My personal rig is a truck camper on a '05 Chevy dually. Like many TC owners I'm well over my GVWR of 11,400 pounds. I've logged many thousands of trouble free miles at about 13,100 pounds on this truck. I'm not over my tire, axle, or even tagged weight so all is perfectly legal.

[handye9]

Lazy D wrote:
Well I'm thoroughly confused now. The door tag says GVWR 9200 lbs, GAWR FRT 4670 lbs, & GAWR RR 6084 lbs. Looking in the manual for my model it states max GCWR of 22,000 lbs , and max Tow 14,200 lbs. it also has a foot note Max pin weight 3000 lbs. I definitely don't want to overload my truck. Is running it across a scale the only way to be sure?

The numbers, on the door tag, are for your particular truck, as it came off the assembly line.

The max weight numbers, in the manual, are for a "propperly equipped" version of that make / model. Depending on cab configurations, drive trains, power trains, installed options, suspensions, axles, and tires, the actual capacities will vary. The manufacturer can't print a seperate manual for every variation. Your max tow capacity, may not be that max number in the manual. Look for key words like "up to" and "actual max tow capacity is limited to the weakest link in the vehicles overall ratings".

Prime example is F150. They can be had with as little as 750 payload with 5000 tow capacity, up to 3100 payload with 11,000 tow capacity.

Another consideration is, available payload and tow capacity are both reduced by the weight of any aftermarket accessories (bed liners, undercoating, floor mats, etc), passengers, cargo, and hitch equipment. If you've got 1000 lbs of people, hitch, and cargo, your max tow number and available payload, are both 1000 lbs less.

[Old-Biscuit]

Door tag:
GVWR 9200#........so your truck weighs 7820#. You can 'load/carry---pin weight' 1320# before going over GVWR

GAWR FRT 4670#........should show on weight ticket you got what front axle weighed. You will be under that GAWR. Even when you hook up a 5vr as very little weight goes on front axle----5th wheel adds weigh to rear axle

GAWR RR 6084#.......you weighed 3420#. That leaves 2664# before you would overload/exceed RAWR

So if you go by TRUCK Gross Weight Ratings (not towing or combined weight) you have limited options.
Stay under Trucks GVWR.....that means basically frget 5th wheel and look at bumper pulls
Forget Trucks GVWR and go with RAWR....that means 12K GVWR 5vr


Or go with 'published' BS numbers and take trucks weight 7820# subtracted from GCWR 22,000# and get your self a 14,180# 5vr and forget about ANY of trucks weight ratings///////except them rear tires Just get some higher load rated tires.

It is simple math.....just have to make a choice on which numbers you want to use OR justify to use.

[Lazy_D]

Well I'm thoroughly confused now. The door tag says GVWR 9200 lbs, GAWR FRT 4670 lbs, & GAWR RR 6084 lbs. Looking in the manual for my model it states max GCWR of 22,000 lbs , and max Tow 14,200 lbs. it also has a foot note Max pin weight 3000 lbs. I definitely don't want to overload my truck. Is running it across a scale the only way to be sure?

[laknox]

Lazy D wrote:
New to the RV world and looking for advise from the pros

So here is what I have and the trailer I'm looking at. I had posted this info over in the toy hauler weight section but figured it's really not exclusive to that section.

I have a 2007 Chevy Silverado classic 2500HD Duramax CCSB 4X4. The manual says 14,200 max tow and 22,000 GCWR. I have E rated tires at 80psi of a total capacity of 6084 lbs rating. I weighed my truck full of fule 2 passengers and my B&W companion slider at 7880 lbs and a rear axle weight of 3420.

The trailer I'm looking at is a 2013 Crossroads Elevation 3612 stickered at 11,572 from the factory not sure of the exact pin weight but the NADA spec says 10,910 lbs dry and 2400 lbs pin.

Am I calculating this correct that I need to limit my trailer to 14,120 lbs to keep from exceeding my 22,000, and limited pin weight to 2,664 lbs?

Is this trailer going to be pushing it once loaded? I guess it also depends on just how much gear I load up. Since it is a toy hauler if I keep more to the rear will it be fine?

Thanks in advance for helping this rookie.

As the others have said, you're certain to be over your usable payload. Now, if you find a FW that puts you just a touch over, I'd go for it. One thing that you'll likely find is that the OEM 245 tires will give you a tire capacity =below= the rear axle capacity by a few hundred lbs. By jumping up to 265s, you'll gain nearly 900 lbs of tire capacity, which will put you over the RAWR a bit. My '02 D'max is this way. I figure if I'm a touch over my cargo, but under my tire and axle ratings, I'm OK. Now, if I were 500-1000 lbs over on cargo, I'd be looking at different trailers or different trucks. As it is, I'm shopping and I'm likely to get a new FW that's bigger than the Komfort in my sig, yet somewhere between 800 and 1300 lbs =lighter=!

Lyle