2013 Leprechaun water leak problems

[GollyCollie]

My wife and I bought a new 2013 Leprechaun 317SA that we like a lot except we have very bad water leak issue in it. The front cap on our unit, and apparently on a lot of 2013 Leprechauns, was mounted improperly and it allows water to leak in and collect inside he front cap. This water that pools in the front cap then spills over into the hollow bunk deck and goes from there. I discovered the problem when I turned a corner and water showered down on my head! The dealer has made several attempts to correct the problem over the past 4 months, but each attempt has been a failure. Currently they have the front cap totally off of my unit so they can replace the bunk that has been damaged by the water. We are waiting for the bunk from the factory and they are giving me an estimate of 3-4 weeks before it is here. Once the dealer pulled the front cap off they found that the cap was mounted with non-water resistant, double face tape and then simply sealed around the edge with silicon. if the silicon seal is breached in any way, water comes right in and collects in the cap. According to the dealer, they have several more Leprechauns on their lot that are the same way and have water leak problems. This tells me that there must be a lot of them out there.

I think that my dealer is doing the best he can do to make my coach right but I am getting very frustrated with it. I am making payments on an RV that I can't use. I also know from sad experience what water can to do a motorhome and don't want to repeat it.

I would be very interested to hear about anyone else with a new Leprechaun that is having water leak issues so we can compare notes. Maybe I can help you with what I have learned too.

[GollyCollie]

Feel free to contact me CT51. I am sure you have the ability to find and fix the problem, but the point is that you bought a brand new motorhome for top dollar and you shouldn't have to. Its not like this was a $5000 motorhome off of Craigs List. Use your lift to tilt the whole unit forward a bit and I bet you will get more water. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

[DaHose]

That just plain sucks, CT51. If I was in the same position as you, I would be ready to strangle some fool.

I can only suggest you replace that thin aluminum side strip with something wider that will apply more pressure on that seam. Then run an Eternabond strip across the roof top seam, before you tack down the roof strip with butyl underneath. Ideally, the screws get good bite on something in the wall, so that the strip can have good pressure to seal the butyl. If it is just going into foam, then I would epoxy in some anchors, or make a stainless steel flashing that I could slip underneath the outer filon skin. The SS flashing would really hold onto your screw threads and "sandwich" the outer aluminum piece and filon, ensuring a good seal of the butyl.

Jose

[CT51]

Well, it leaked. We didn't have near as much rain as forecasted-mostly just drizzled all day. As mentioned, I had the front panel off so I could monitor the area during the day. By 6:00PM, the rain was just mist, and the front cap was dry. Around 10:00, I decided there wasn't enough rain to really check this problem, and went out to lock up and call it a night. I inspected the area one more time, and sure enough there was water about 1/4 inch deep. I quickly dried everything up, and put the coach back in the garage. Set a fan up to blow on the area, and a dehumidifier in the coach.

The water did seem to come up from below. I felt all the vertical surfaces of the inside of the cap, and everything was dry. My coach has had the "repair" mentioned, as you can see that the molding has been removed, sealant or putty applied beneath, then reattached and the exterior of the molding sealed with silicone. I've inspected that very closely, and I cannot see how water could get in that way. I also removed some of the vinyl insert of the awning rail, and it is dry there. At this point, I have no idea where the water is coming from.

I'll contact the dealership tomorrow and let them know of the situation. It's quite obvious the problem was known, and I bet they were happy I was out of state. I would just take the hit and trade it, but there isn't any other Class C I like as much as this one.

At this point, I might be PM'ing a couple of you for more specifics on repairs and dealing with GRW. I really needed another project.

CT51

[tvchen]

CT51 wrote:

tvchen wrote:

GollyCollie wrote:

tvchen wrote:
Did he tell you where those other leaks are?

The one that he mentioned in particular was in the rail above the awning. He said he believed that there was entrusion happening there and that the water then traveled under the rail up to the front and then into the cap. I hope Azdel does what they say it will or those walls are in trouble.

When I saw those railings I did not have too much confidence in them so I laid a bead of dicor at the rail and roof junction. In fact I also laid a bead between the plastic trim (in front of the awning railing)up to the point where the trim meets the front cap). I also pro-flexed all the screw heads inside the rail. I believe I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts.

tvchen,

Regarding the sealant work you did, what made you choose Dicor to seal at the rail/roof junction rather than Pro-flex? Also, it seems to me that water that gets into the awning rail (under the vinyl insert, where the screws that hold it on are), should have a way to get out. If you remove the vinyl insert, it's easy to see that water has been in there. Has anyone considered adding weep holes to the vinyl strip, or better yet drilling a few small (1/8" or less), holes thru the awning channel, and up into the area of the rail where the vinyl insert rest? If there wasn't any water ever allowed to stay in the rail, there wouldn't be a problem with it passing thru the screw holes. Of course, this doesn't address water entering behind the rail from above-that area would still need to be resealed as discussed above.

Hasn't rained hard yet, so have just been thinking about what actions I might take after I see what happens tonight. Even if I don't have any leak occur, I still plan to add whatever protection I can.

CT51

I reason I picked dicor is because it is self leveling so it will get into any cracks. I've found that Proflex also does not like to stick to TPO that well. For your other question about the vinyl strip, I basically ran a small bead of Proflex at the vinyl/railing junction both top and bottom along the whole length. We've had quite a bit of rain in the last few weeks and I did check behind the vinyl strip and it was bone dry. So this method completely prevents water entering the rail. The Proflex never hardens so the vinyl strip can still be removed and the Proflex scraped off and cleaned with mineral spirit.

[CT51]

tvchen wrote:

GollyCollie wrote:

tvchen wrote:
Did he tell you where those other leaks are?

The one that he mentioned in particular was in the rail above the awning. He said he believed that there was entrusion happening there and that the water then traveled under the rail up to the front and then into the cap. I hope Azdel does what they say it will or those walls are in trouble.

When I saw those railings I did not have too much confidence in them so I laid a bead of dicor at the rail and roof junction. In fact I also laid a bead between the plastic trim (in front of the awning railing)up to the point where the trim meets the front cap). I also pro-flexed all the screw heads inside the rail. I believe I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts.

tvchen,

Regarding the sealant work you did, what made you choose Dicor to seal at the rail/roof junction rather than Pro-flex? Also, it seems to me that water that gets into the awning rail (under the vinyl insert, where the screws that hold it on are), should have a way to get out. If you remove the vinyl insert, it's easy to see that water has been in there. Has anyone considered adding weep holes to the vinyl strip, or better yet drilling a few small (1/8" or less), holes thru the awning channel, and up into the area of the rail where the vinyl insert rest? If there wasn't any water ever allowed to stay in the rail, there wouldn't be a problem with it passing thru the screw holes. Of course, this doesn't address water entering behind the rail from above-that area would still need to be resealed as discussed above.

Hasn't rained hard yet, so have just been thinking about what actions I might take after I see what happens tonight. Even if I don't have any leak occur, I still plan to add whatever protection I can.

CT51

[GollyCollie]

paullac wrote:
Curious if there's any news on the legal front? I believe you had started that process. I imagine that takes a long time too.

I have been working with the Florida Attorney General’s Office in regard to using Florida’s Lemon Law. Pursuing a remedy through the Lemon Law is much more difficult with an RV than with a car. With a car, the manufacturer is given 15 days to correct the problem after notice has been given by the consumer, but with an RV they are given 45 days. In my case I messed around for quite a few weeks before issuing that notice to Coachmen because I didn’t know better. If this happened to me today, that notice would go out on day one. Also, not everything with an RV is covered under Florida’s Lemon Law. If the problem concerns something that is primarily a living feature, such as a side door or the refrigerator, that doesn’t count. If this leak was in the back of the coach in my closet it wouldn’t count, but because it is above the passenger compartment and creates a use and safety issue, that puts it under the Lemon Law. The Lemon Law mainly covers things that are chassis, engine, transmission related. The RV industry must have had very good representation in the Florida Legislature when this law was drafted. According to the Attorney General’s office, because I have filled notice with Coachmen, if I get my coach back this time and have another occurrence of the problem, I can take it immediately to arbitration. Of course the arbitration board is funded by the RV industry so my guess is they are more than a little slanted toward the manufacturer and not the consumer, but that is just my guess.

[GollyCollie]

CT51 wrote:
I posted earlier that I have a 2014 Leprechaun 319DS. From one of your videos, it appears we bought from the same dealer.

CT51, I assume that you mean the Coachmen dealer in Winter Garden, FL, not Winter Park. Yes, we are with the same dealer. Are you the person who discovered that there was no insulation in your cap? I can tell you that, from conversations with the service staff, they had several of these leaky Leprechauns on their lot, one of which had an entertainment center in the bunk area. What a mess that would be. I was also told that Coachmen wasn’t giving the dealer too much guidance on what they should do to correct the problem. I think that Coachmen now has given the dealer instructions on how to ‘fix’ the problem but I don’t know for sure. I get different, conflicting stories depending on who I talk to. The ‘fix’ that was probably done to yours was to pull the surrounding trim from around the cap, put putty tale under it, and then remount it. That didn’t work with mine, and in fact, they are still finding leaks in it.

When did you buy yours? Were you told anything by the salesperson about the problem?

My suggestion to you is to get your Leprechaun out from under cover and get as much water on it as possible as soon as possible. In fact, put a garden sprinkler on your roof and let that go for a few days. If you are still having a problem you need to find out ASAP while you are still under warrantee. Another suggestion is that since a lot of the leaks seem to be happening farther back on the roof, you can also use your rear lifts to tilt the coach forward and get any trapped water moving to the front. When I did that with mine and let it set over night I was able to draw off almost another gallon. I see that you live in Georgia. I am only 30 minutes from the dealer and it is a real pain for me. I can’t imagine what it would be like if I was 5 hours or more away. I am also finding that the service staff at the dealership seem to be pretty good people, but my dealings with the management have been a little less than friendly. When I was trying to trade out of this deal without losing money on it I was told by the manager of that location that I was looking for more than I had coming. I guess my idea of what I have coming is different than his. His attitude motivated me to making getting this situation set right my new hobby.

One of my purposes in documenting this whole thing on RV.net is to make other folks in our position aware. I think that the more of us that can be in contact with each other, the better. In a situation like this knowledge is power and there is strength in numbers. I’m sorry you are in this mess with me.

[CT51]

I posted earlier that I have a 2014 Leprechaun 319DS. From one of your videos, it appears we bought from the same dealer. (Winter Park location for me). I also mentioned there were signs of leak repair when I checked after seeing your post.

I am fortunate to be able to keep my MH in an enclosed garage on my property. Today it is supposed to rain all day and thru the night, so I am on my way out to park the MH outside. I have the screws out of the forward trim piece, and the cushions and trim piece removed. Will check it all day and night to look for water intrusion. Laid awake thinking about it all night, wondering what my plan of action would be it there are leaks.

Other posters are right. This is a serious problem for Coachmen, that I believe could be corrected on future models during production, by using the correct materials and attention to detail at these roof intersections and seams. I did a check on RV Trader, and there are a great many Leprechauns on dealer lots right now. How many of those are leaking? Will report what I find tomorrow.

CT51

[vanGogh]

So sorry to hear that this continues. I believe you are helping others with your posts and hopefully your posts will catch the attention of Coachmen's management who may come to realize that the damage to their reputation and lost sales is costlier than properly resolving your issue or reimbursing you for your losses.

[paullac]

I feel SO bad for your situation.

Curious if there's any news on the legal front? I believe you had started that process. I imagine that takes a long time too.

Also, assuming that it may never be 100% (I'm assuming that thought has crossed your mind already), have you given any consideration to selling it after getting it back from the repair? Just from the perspective that it may be at it's best then (i.e., no pooling water). I realize you'd lose money. But would you lose less versus potentially having to sell it in another year with pooling water & no warranty repair. I don't know, just a thought.

You might be too far along for this now. But, especially if there are other leaks, is it a possibility to have Coachmen take it back for reconstructive work in their facility? I have a Forest River Sunseeker & know that's an option for serious problems (which, obviously, you have). Although, just playing devils advocate now, the factory might give you a redo back to factory spec which isn't "right". The dealer seems like they are trying to custom fabricate solutions even though it's taking a long time.

I do think your posts are helping in that somebody somewhere has given the Coachmen brand a second thought (along the lines of you wanting to tell the young couple to run when they were picking up their unit).

As others have said, best of luck as you continue to work through this.

[tvchen]

GollyCollie wrote:

tvchen wrote:
Did he tell you where those other leaks are?

The one that he mentioned in particular was in the rail above the awning. He said he believed that there was entrusion happening there and that the water then traveled under the rail up to the front and then into the cap. I hope Azdel does what they say it will or those walls are in trouble.

When I saw those railings I did not have too much confidence in them so I laid a bead of dicor at the rail and roof junction. In fact I also laid a bead between the plastic trim (in front of the awning railing)up to the point where the trim meets the front cap). I also pro-flexed all the screw heads inside the rail. I believe I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts.

[GollyCollie]

tvchen wrote:
Did he tell you where those other leaks are?

The one that he mentioned in particular was in the rail above the awning. He said he believed that there was entrusion happening there and that the water then traveled under the rail up to the front and then into the cap. I hope Azdel does what they say it will or those walls are in trouble.

[GollyCollie]

Mich F wrote:
It's also hard to believe you have the only unit with that style cap that has that problem. I imagine there must be a lot of people, that just aren't aware yet ,of what they're going to encounter in the near future.

I am aware of at least 3 more Leprechaun's that this dealer had on his lot with the same problem. Last weekend when I was visiting my motorhome there was a young couple there taking delivery on a new Leprechaun and it was all I could do not to talk to them. I wish there was a way I could notify everyone who bought one of these to watch for the problem. As bad as this is for me, it would be so much worse a year down the road when it is out of warrantee. Unless they surprise me, I think Coachmen will let those folks twist in the breeze.

[tvchen]

GollyCollie wrote:
He told me they found several more small leaks farther back and that the water from those leaks eventually migrates forward and ends up in the cap.

Did he tell you where those other leaks are?

[Mich_F]

I don't know what to say. This situation you're in is totally absurd. One of the reasons people buy new motor homes is so that they don't end up with someone else's nightmare. Here you have a nightmare of a motor home, and it's brand new. Obviously the thrill, excitement or whatever of buying a new motor home, is long gone with this motor home.
It sounds like you like the people doing, or trying to do the repairs, but it definitely hasn't been a high priority with them, given the amount of time they've had the unit.
Have you heard anything from Coachmen about this situation you've unfortunately found yourself in ?
It's also hard to believe you have the only unit with that style cap that has that problem. I imagine there must be a lot of people, that just aren't aware yet ,of what they're going to encounter in the near future.