antenna

[kdk]

Is there a better over the air antenna than the crank up bat wing? Thinking about a replacement and wondering if any body has better luck with something different that is not directional.
Thanks in advance;kdk

[wa8yxm]

The sensor Pro indoor module contains a 2nd Pre-amp, this is what gives you better reception, this pre-amp is specifically designed to work in concert with the mast-heat amplifier and provide power to it.

In addition the Sensar pro has several other features, It has two 2 digit digital displays, ONE shows the carrier channel it is reading and the other the strength, This assists you in aiming the antenna more precisely.

The display modes can be adjusted using one button in a round robin style, OFF, Search, Scan, Manual, Gain, Volume.

OFF: this is the setting for CABLE TV (or whatever is connected to the input marked CABLE)

Search: this is the first stop when you are antenna pointing, searches for the STRONGEST digital carrier and displays the carrier channel (See note below).

Scan: using the other two buttons (Up/Down) scrolls through ALL the digital carriers its found, (Bottom display) Strength is displayed on top.

MANUAL: (select) you manually choose a carrier channel using the up-down buttons, and bottom display, Top display shows strength (if any).

Gain: Adjust the gain of the 2nd pre-amp (zero to 20, 10 is default)

Volume: If the unit is mounted where it is hard to see while aiming the antenna this provides audio feedback of the signal strength.. Much like a Sat Receiver on the antenna pointing page.

NOTE: In the old analog days, If you were watching say channel 7 you were receiving channel 7 (Display and carrier channel were the same) but in this digital age..

Well Channel 7 in Detroit uses, as I recall, channel 41
Channel 7 in say Upstate SC,, something different (I think 7 without checking)

There channel display on your screen (7-1) no longer indicates the carrier channel... However do not worry about it.. You do not need to know the carrier channel (Except for using the Sensar Pro) you just let the TV auto-scan, then if you wish to peak on a specific channel you ask the TV for the carrier channel and it will tell you (Select the channel you wish to peak then go to menu and the option to manually add a channel, MOST TV's will show you the carrier channel on that screen)

But the reason for the improved reception is mostly the 2nd adjustable pre-amp built into the Sensar Pro.

Why make it adjustable? Well,,.. Sometimes you can get TOO MUCH gain and that too causes problems.

[SCVJeff]

dodge guy wrote:

SCVJeff wrote:
Then his is as broken as yours was..

If that's the case then I know quite a few people that also have broken ones! As I said, for me the Jack is far superior to the Batwing. Even my buddy commented on how many stations I pick up compared to his.

Maybe there are better out thetre , but at this time I don't have a need to look!

You probably do. It's no secret that the Batwings are fragile as demonstrated by how many have problems. It's also a fact that they are the best performers out there, but all that bouncing around obviously takes it's toll. Like I said, his was as broken as yours was.

[NHIrish]

wa8yxm wrote:

kdk wrote:
Is there a better over the air antenna than the crank up bat wing? Thinking about a replacement and wondering if any body has better luck with something different that is not directional.
Thanks in advance;kdk

There are two types of replies you can get: I read lab reports (prepared by another forum member) and others will tell you what they feel.. Problem is there are in fact two answers

Antennas come in basically 3 types
First: to properly understand what I am about to type you need either a smart phone app (Antenna Helper Free) or a web page (Antenna pointer pages) and in the latter your precise location (lat and long gps style)


Interesting...can you expand on the sensor pro? What is there about it that allows better signal strength?
Antenna types:
Omin-directional.. It is possible to park so that the Antenna apps/pages show the towers in a circle around you Say you are "Wally Docking" at the Tel-12 mall in Southfield, MI., that would be such a place. Of course when you are that close to the towers a paper clip might well do the job. (used to live 5 miles from there)

Otherwise I consider these fluing saucer jobs to be JUNK.

The Jack (from king controls) this is a wide beam antenna, if the stations are covering say a 45 degree arc, (Still fairly close in) this might well be better.

Winegard Batwing, un-modified (Sensar II or III) this is a very good VHF antenna, roughly 50-60 mile rated. Not so good on UHF (perhaps half that).

Winegard Batwing (Sensar II or III) with Wingman (or Sensar IV which comes with the Wingman) this fixes the UHF problem, so it's not 50-60 mile rated on all bands (There are 3 bands). This is the best RV TV antenna if you are some distanc from teh tower.. But it is a tight beam (meaning if towers are all about you you have to re-aim a lot.

Now: To improve that even more....

On the standard Sensar line (All 3 of the ones listed above 2,3 and 4) the indoor module is normally a wall plate with a switch, light, 12 volt outlet and antenna connection (3 more connections plus 12 volt connections on the back) many call this "The booster". it is not, it is the power supply for the booster which is in the antenna where it belongs (I do know why but .. Well, lots of typing).

The alternate indoor module is a Box of Many buttons (matrix switch) which they no longer make.

These devices provide power to the antenna's built in booster, they also select between park cable (or one other source) and OTA.

Winegard makes an alternate wall plate. The SENSAR PRO (I have one), this 100 dollar upgrade made a BIG and I mean BIG difference in the number of stations I can pick up in one of my favorite campgrounds,, Did not do bad in a few others.

Recommendation: Sensar IV with Sensar Pro for best long distance results, Be sure to read the instructions on the Sensar pro.

That is interesting...can you expand about the sensor pro and what about it allows for (the apparent) better signal strength?

[wa8yxm]

SCVJeff wrote:
And thats the problem with the Batwing, they're way easier to break than a Jack or Razair because of size. But... The Jacks performance across the board doesn't match up to the Batwing with or without a Wingman, and is especially poor on VHF which is what the 'wing's' on the Batwing are there for.

Its all a compromise.

A few Experts I know, folks who have published books on the topic, say that when it comes to antennas, Within certain limits the more metal you put in the air the better. (Kind of reminds me of a old fast food commercial The bigger the antenna the better the antenna the antennas are bigger at batwing inc).(Ok I rewrote that big time)

Those limits have to do with wavelength and a bunch of technicial stuff but bsically, YES, the Batwing is bigger, and thus better (closer to an ideal VHF antenna size) smaller UHF parts are inside the head, and the wingman fixes the lack of metal there.

(The Wingman's technical name is UHF DIRECTOR ARRAY) by the way)

[dodge_guy]

SCVJeff wrote:
Then his is as broken as yours was..

If that's the case then I know quite a few people that also have broken ones! As I said, for me the Jack is far superior to the Batwing. Even my buddy commented on how many stations I pick up compared to his.

Maybe there are better out thetre , but at this time I don't have a need to look!

[wildtoad]

inky wrote:
Have you notice a real difference in using the Razor antenna over the Jack?

I did. Got a few more channels/stations while parked in my yard over the jack. Seems I have to do less adjustments with the Rayzor versus the Jack.

As some will say... You Mileage may Vary..

[-Gramps-]

I just replaced my Batwing with the Rayzar and I noticed a real improvement. I opted to keep one of the original arms instead of using the shorter arm that came with the Rayzar. I already had the Sensor Pro installed and it works really well with the Rayzar.

[wa8yxm]

kdk wrote:
Is there a better over the air antenna than the crank up bat wing? Thinking about a replacement and wondering if any body has better luck with something different that is not directional.
Thanks in advance;kdk

There are two types of replies you can get: I read lab reports (prepared by another forum member) and others will tell you what they feel.. Problem is there are in fact two answers

Antennas come in basically 3 types
First: to properly understand what I am about to type you need either a smart phone app (Antenna Helper Free) or a web page (Antenna pointer pages) and in the latter your precise location (lat and long gps style)

Antenna types:
Omin-directional.. It is possible to park so that the Antenna apps/pages show the towers in a circle around you Say you are "Wally Docking" at the Tel-12 mall in Southfield, MI., that would be such a place. Of course when you are that close to the towers a paper clip might well do the job. (used to live 5 miles from there)

Otherwise I consider these fluing saucer jobs to be JUNK.

The Jack (from king controls) this is a wide beam antenna, if the stations are covering say a 45 degree arc, (Still fairly close in) this might well be better.

Winegard Batwing, un-modified (Sensar II or III) this is a very good VHF antenna, roughly 50-60 mile rated. Not so good on UHF (perhaps half that).

Winegard Batwing (Sensar II or III) with Wingman (or Sensar IV which comes with the Wingman) this fixes the UHF problem, so it's not 50-60 mile rated on all bands (There are 3 bands). This is the best RV TV antenna if you are some distanc from teh tower.. But it is a tight beam (meaning if towers are all about you you have to re-aim a lot.

Now: To improve that even more....

On the standard Sensar line (All 3 of the ones listed above 2,3 and 4) the indoor module is normally a wall plate with a switch, light, 12 volt outlet and antenna connection (3 more connections plus 12 volt connections on the back) many call this "The booster". it is not, it is the power supply for the booster which is in the antenna where it belongs (I do know why but .. Well, lots of typing).

The alternate indoor module is a Box of Many buttons (matrix switch) which they no longer make.

These devices provide power to the antenna's built in booster, they also select between park cable (or one other source) and OTA.

Winegard makes an alternate wall plate. The SENSAR PRO (I have one), this 100 dollar upgrade made a BIG and I mean BIG difference in the number of stations I can pick up in one of my favorite campgrounds,, Did not do bad in a few others.

Recommendation: Sensar IV with Sensar Pro for best long distance results, Be sure to read the instructions on the Sensar pro.

[SCVJeff]

BTPO1 wrote:
I like my Jack antenna. A lot of people on here like the Batwing. I have broken two of them when the wind caught it and bent it up and off. Both times they were completely lowered. I don't see that happening with the Jack and to me the reception is OK. JMO

And thats the problem with the Batwing, they're way easier to break than a Jack or Razair because of size. But... The Jacks performance across the board doesn't match up to the Batwing with or without a Wingman, and is especially poor on VHF which is what the 'wing's' on the Batwing are there for.

Its all a compromise.

[2006_SMOKEY]

The bat wing with upgrade to wingman did a wonderful job of flying off of my roof enroot home from my fist ever trip. I get decent reception so far in NC and SC.

[IAMICHABOD]

inky wrote:
Have you notice a real difference in using the Razor antenna over the Jack?

Yes the Rayzar being Multi-Directional seems to do better than the Jack
I had a clearance problem with the Wingman

So I opted to put a Jack on

I then went with the Rayzar as you can see it fits in the same space.
I opted not to put it on the supplied 13 In. arm. I kept one arm of the Winegard mast and mounted it that way,there are instructions in the kit,it is very easy to do. This way I had it in the same space and got the maximum height when deployed.

][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TgLwTbbl.jpg" height=220>

The Bi-Directional feature is great and easier to use than the Jack and I get a few more stations.

[BTPO1]

I like my Jack antenna. A lot of people on here like the Batwing. I have broken two of them when the wind caught it and bent it up and off. Both times they were completely lowered. I don't see that happening with the Jack and to me the reception is OK. JMO

[SCVJeff]

Then his is as broken as yours was..

[dodge_guy]

I have the Jack and replaced the Batwing. it is hands down the best antenna. I pick up way more stations with it than I did with the Batwing. my buddy has the Batwing with the Wingman and it gets no where near the stations mine does. we used my antenna for Columbus day to pick up the Bears game, because he couldn`t even get a decent signal.