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cvbdsl
Explorer
Feb 26, 2017

Canadian prices too high on used units? Cheaper to import?

Ok, this applies to us living north of the border. I'm starting to get frustrated with a lot of Canadian dealers, especially in Ontario. Long-winded post so please bear with me. When I'm looking (a...
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prices too high on used units? Cheaper to import?","id":"message:2565868","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":96,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:161561"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:Motorhomesforum-board"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2565868"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2565868"},"body@stripHtml({\"truncateLength\":200})":"Ok, this applies to us living north of the border. I'm starting to get frustrated with a lot of Canadian dealers, especially in Ontario. Long-winded post so please bear with me. When I'm looking (a...","body@stringLength":"2442","rawBody":"Ok, this applies to us living north of the border. I'm starting to get frustrated with a lot of Canadian dealers, especially in Ontario. Long-winded post so please bear with me.

When I'm looking (as I'm seriously doing this week) I use the NADA low and average retail as aguide- stress guide and 30% added for the CAD dollar difference. However dealers seem to be adding 40-50% on to their prices with a take it or leave it attitude.

So my question is, is it getting to the point where I can bring a MH into Canada cheaper myself?

Here is my thought process on how the dollars work out. Same theoretical motorhome in Canada and US, priced at $100K USD in the US and should be priced at $130K in CAD using NADA as a guide.

If I buy in the US I loose any sales tax credit on my trade so I'm thinking it works as follows;

Buy in the US (using an exchange rate of 30%)
Asking price $100K USD
Maybe get $45K USD in trade (taking $5K of off NADA low)
I pay $55K USD or or roughly $71,500 CAD
Add sales tax of $16,900K CAD (13% on the full value in CAD - $130K)
Total cost before any misc fees for import $88,400 CAD

Buying in Canada ideal price
So asking price $130K CAD (assuming realistic markup)
Maybe $45K CAD in trade (even though avg NADA is more like 58K)
I pay $85K CAD plus
sales tax on $85K = $11,505 CAD
Total cost should be = $96,505 CAD


OK, a $8100 CAD difference cheaper in the US based on NADA average.
(The trade in value above in CAD is based on current discussions with lowball dealers offer not NADA average with 30% )


Based on what I've been looking at Canadian dealers are not using NADA average (though they actually say they use it), actual asking price on the MH in Canada for a $100K USD MH is usually around $150K, so potentially I can save $20K going to the US right of the bat.

Actual example on a MH I asked a dealer about. NADA plus 30$ put it at $179K CAD, dealer told me it was $220K CAD. Where did the extra $40K come from? Oh yeah, he told me a tag cost $80K more than non-tag, even used.

So is anyone else thinking of going this route? Also any idea on the import cost? I know there will be at least a couple of grand extra.

Any flaws in my thinking?

Ok, end of my rant.

thanks

Chris","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2017-02-26T11:35:52.000-08:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"tags":{"__typename":"TagConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[{"__typename":"TagEdge","cursor":"MjUuMnwyLjF8b3wxMHxfTlZffDE","node":{"__typename":"Tag","id":"tag:Class A","text":"Class A","time":"2002-04-24T11:23:54.000-07:00","lastActivityTime":null,"messagesCount":null,"followersCount":null}}]},"timeToRead":2,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:2565868_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":20520},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","canonicalUrl":null,"seoTitle":null,"seoDescription":null,"isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"archivalData":null,"customFields":[],"body":"Ok, this applies to us living north of the border. I'm starting to get frustrated with a lot of Canadian dealers, especially in Ontario. Long-winded post so please bear with me.

When I'm looking (as I'm seriously doing this week) I use the NADA low and average retail as aguide- stress guide and 30% added for the CAD dollar difference. However dealers seem to be adding 40-50% on to their prices with a take it or leave it attitude.

So my question is, is it getting to the point where I can bring a MH into Canada cheaper myself?

Here is my thought process on how the dollars work out. Same theoretical motorhome in Canada and US, priced at $100K USD in the US and should be priced at $130K in CAD using NADA as a guide.

If I buy in the US I loose any sales tax credit on my trade so I'm thinking it works as follows;

Buy in the US (using an exchange rate of 30%)
Asking price $100K USD
Maybe get $45K USD in trade (taking $5K of off NADA low)
I pay $55K USD or or roughly $71,500 CAD
Add sales tax of $16,900K CAD (13% on the full value in CAD - $130K)
Total cost before any misc fees for import $88,400 CAD

Buying in Canada ideal price
So asking price $130K CAD (assuming realistic markup)
Maybe $45K CAD in trade (even though avg NADA is more like 58K)
I pay $85K CAD plus
sales tax on $85K = $11,505 CAD
Total cost should be = $96,505 CAD


OK, a $8100 CAD difference cheaper in the US based on NADA average.
(The trade in value above in CAD is based on current discussions with lowball dealers offer not NADA average with 30% )


Based on what I've been looking at Canadian dealers are not using NADA average (though they actually say they use it), actual asking price on the MH in Canada for a $100K USD MH is usually around $150K, so potentially I can save $20K going to the US right of the bat.

Actual example on a MH I asked a dealer about. NADA plus 30$ put it at $179K CAD, dealer told me it was $220K CAD. Where did the extra $40K come from? Oh yeah, he told me a tag cost $80K more than non-tag, even used.

So is anyone else thinking of going this route? Also any idea on the import cost? I know there will be at least a couple of grand extra.

Any flaws in my thinking?

Ok, end of my rant.

thanks

Chris"},"Conversation:conversation:2565868":{"__typename":"Conversation","id":"conversation:2565868","solved":false,"topic":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2565868"},"lastPostingActivityTime":"2017-10-13T19:03:54.000-07:00","lastPostTime":"2017-10-13T19:03:54.000-07:00","unreadReplyCount":96,"isSubscribed":false},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2565868":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2565868","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"Revision:revision:2565868_1":{"__typename":"Revision","id":"revision:2565868_1","lastEditTime":"2017-02-26T11:35:52.000-08:00"},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2565920":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:2565920","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2565868"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:390468"},"revisionNum":1,"uid":2565920,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:Motorhomesforum-board"},"subject":"Re: Canadian prices too high on used units? Cheaper to import?","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2565920"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2565868"},"body":"Where do I start? I have owned three motorhomes bought in the US.....two I imported and registered in Nova Scotia, one I registered in NC. The US one was insured by Progressive and the others were insured by companies registered to sell insurance in NS.

I don't care what the rules are in your province or in Manitoba....I don't live there and I never will, and I certainly won't be registering a motor home there. So don't bother posting about Manitoba if I'm your target reader.

First, let's talk about selling a Canadian motorhome to a US buyer:
The process is to present yourself and the unit to a US Customs officer at a port of entry. Usually at an airport or a marine port, although a land border crossing is OK, though not recommended as it's a time-consuming process and the US Customs agents there are usually busy. I've found that bothering LEO's or quasi-LEO's with 'time-wasters\" is not generally productive. Your Choice. Bring your documents showing purchase, insurance, title, etc. The agent will look up when you entered the US and will want to know why you want to import it to the US (so I can sell it). He needs to go to the rig and check VIN and maybe mileage and the manufacturer's plates for GVRW and date of manufacture. He goes back to the office and then processes paper for 10 minutes or so, then gives you a form showing it has been imported to US. Buyer will need this to register it in US. Simple as that, assuming it was originally a US unit. If it was made somewhere else take it home and sell it in Canada.

Importing a US made unit to Canada: You are importing a Vehicle, so you must abide by the Vehicle Import Rules. JaxDad wants to import a house, so he needs to go by the house import rules....good luck finding them. If you are importing a vehicle you don't care about house rules.

First step is see if there are restrictions on importing the vehicle:
a)units over 15 years old are admissable
b) units under 15 years old...check the RIV list to see if unit is admissable (admissability depends on what CSA and DOT rules the unit meets and whether the manufacturer filed the paperwork to get this model approved......eg. Country Coach didn't and so only Country Coaches over 15 years old are admissable)
the listing will also list modifications needed for import. Be careful as the mods required can be expensive.
c) Once you've bought your new unit, the title and bill of sale need to be submitted to US Customs at the border crossing you will be using 72 hours prior to crossing. Some allow you to fax them the papers, some want it in person. Some accept copies, some want originals.
d) Appear at US Customs to get your clearance to leave the US. They will want to check the VIN and Manufacturer's plate and will already have checked for liens....there can be no liens on it when exported. They will give you a Form showing the unit has been officially exported from the US. Save this to show US Customs in case you later want to sell it in the US and to show Canadian Customs when you get to their offices in 5 minutes.
e) go to the vehicle Import office at Canadian Customs, with all your paperwork. They will physically inspect for VIN, mileage, Manufacturer's plate, etc. They will charge about $225 as the import inspection fee for RIV and 5% GST. After paying, you can drive it home.
f) next step is to do whatever mods are required: KM markings on speedometer, .daytime running lights, etc,
g) take it to Canadian Tire for an import inspection. This should be included in the import inspection fee, so have your receipt. They will inspect for whatever mods are required according to the RIV list or less if they are lazy. After inspection they will stamp your form from Customs and you are done here.
h) get your provincial MVI if your province has one.
i) go to the DMV and register the vehicle. You will have to pay the provincial portion of HST or PST% and whatever fees you need to register it.

j) put on the plate
k) enjoy!

Notes:
1. You are not allowed to drive a US registered vehicle, unless it's owned by somebody with an agreement with Canada Customs (eg.Uhaul) that allows that.
2. Not all states allow temporary registrations. For example Massachusetts does not, seizes the vehicle and since an unregistered vehicle can't be insured, you are in violation of their laws requiring Public Liability insurance to be on the road. Penalties include immediate imprisonment! So plan to go around Mass. Meanwhile, Connecticut also doesn't do temporary registrations either. But you can borrow the existing plate with a written permission and drive it home with that. My advice is to plan your route and call the state police/ highway patrol in each state you will go through to verify the rules. I would also tell your insurance company your plans regarding temporary paper plates or borrowed plates when you arrange insurance for the trip home.

My Experience is that you will save from $10,000 up by doing this. If you don't need to bring it to Canada, look at the rules and sales tax rules for registering and keeping it off-season in the US and you may save significantly more, and perhaps avoid your annual provincial inspection.","body@stringLength":"5331","rawBody":"Where do I start? I have owned three motorhomes bought in the US.....two I imported and registered in Nova Scotia, one I registered in NC. The US one was insured by Progressive and the others were insured by companies registered to sell insurance in NS.

I don't care what the rules are in your province or in Manitoba....I don't live there and I never will, and I certainly won't be registering a motor home there. So don't bother posting about Manitoba if I'm your target reader.

First, let's talk about selling a Canadian motorhome to a US buyer:
The process is to present yourself and the unit to a US Customs officer at a port of entry. Usually at an airport or a marine port, although a land border crossing is OK, though not recommended as it's a time-consuming process and the US Customs agents there are usually busy. I've found that bothering LEO's or quasi-LEO's with 'time-wasters\" is not generally productive. Your Choice. Bring your documents showing purchase, insurance, title, etc. The agent will look up when you entered the US and will want to know why you want to import it to the US (so I can sell it). He needs to go to the rig and check VIN and maybe mileage and the manufacturer's plates for GVRW and date of manufacture. He goes back to the office and then processes paper for 10 minutes or so, then gives you a form showing it has been imported to US. Buyer will need this to register it in US. Simple as that, assuming it was originally a US unit. If it was made somewhere else take it home and sell it in Canada.

Importing a US made unit to Canada: You are importing a Vehicle, so you must abide by the Vehicle Import Rules. JaxDad wants to import a house, so he needs to go by the house import rules....good luck finding them. If you are importing a vehicle you don't care about house rules.

First step is see if there are restrictions on importing the vehicle:
a)units over 15 years old are admissable
b) units under 15 years old...check the RIV list to see if unit is admissable (admissability depends on what CSA and DOT rules the unit meets and whether the manufacturer filed the paperwork to get this model approved......eg. Country Coach didn't and so only Country Coaches over 15 years old are admissable)
the listing will also list modifications needed for import. Be careful as the mods required can be expensive.
c) Once you've bought your new unit, the title and bill of sale need to be submitted to US Customs at the border crossing you will be using 72 hours prior to crossing. Some allow you to fax them the papers, some want it in person. Some accept copies, some want originals.
d) Appear at US Customs to get your clearance to leave the US. They will want to check the VIN and Manufacturer's plate and will already have checked for liens....there can be no liens on it when exported. They will give you a Form showing the unit has been officially exported from the US. Save this to show US Customs in case you later want to sell it in the US and to show Canadian Customs when you get to their offices in 5 minutes.
e) go to the vehicle Import office at Canadian Customs, with all your paperwork. They will physically inspect for VIN, mileage, Manufacturer's plate, etc. They will charge about $225 as the import inspection fee for RIV and 5% GST. After paying, you can drive it home.
f) next step is to do whatever mods are required: KM markings on speedometer, .daytime running lights, etc,
g) take it to Canadian Tire for an import inspection. This should be included in the import inspection fee, so have your receipt. They will inspect for whatever mods are required according to the RIV list or less if they are lazy. After inspection they will stamp your form from Customs and you are done here.
h) get your provincial MVI if your province has one.
i) go to the DMV and register the vehicle. You will have to pay the provincial portion of HST or PST% and whatever fees you need to register it.

j) put on the plate
k) enjoy!

Notes:
1. You are not allowed to drive a US registered vehicle, unless it's owned by somebody with an agreement with Canada Customs (eg.Uhaul) that allows that.
2. Not all states allow temporary registrations. For example Massachusetts does not, seizes the vehicle and since an unregistered vehicle can't be insured, you are in violation of their laws requiring Public Liability insurance to be on the road. Penalties include immediate imprisonment! So plan to go around Mass. Meanwhile, Connecticut also doesn't do temporary registrations either. But you can borrow the existing plate with a written permission and drive it home with that. My advice is to plan your route and call the state police/ highway patrol in each state you will go through to verify the rules. I would also tell your insurance company your plans regarding temporary paper plates or borrowed plates when you arrange insurance for the trip home.

My Experience is that you will save from $10,000 up by doing this. If you don't need to bring it to Canada, look at the rules and sales tax rules for registering and keeping it off-season in the US and you may save significantly more, and perhaps avoid your annual provincial inspection.","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-10-07T09:15:52.000-07:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":4,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:2565920_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":555},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"customFields":[],"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"CachedAsset:theme:customTheme1-1742976671229":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"theme:customTheme1-1742976671229","value":{"id":"customTheme1","animation":{"fast":"150ms","normal":"250ms","slow":"500ms","slowest":"750ms","function":"cubic-bezier(0.07, 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