Class B or C? Especially cold weather...

[seakayakerski]

Couple ready to purchase first rv...Class B or C rv? We want to travel, camp, boondock or go to an RV park. We sea kayak and downhill ski... Plan to travel in winter too and be able to tolerate freezing conditions. Almost ready to purchase Class B but do concerned B not very tolerant of freezing temps.. Is class C better for freezing temps yet available in 20 ft or so lengths?

[ron_dittmer]

ScottMack wrote:
Also, if you have a Ford chassis, you need to have the engine running when you turn the chassis heat/air off - otherwise, the vents do not close and you will have a major entry point for the cold air (or hot air in the summer). Ford uses the engine vacuum lines to physically close off the system from the outside air.

Agreed.

Turn this dial to the "OFF" position and the front cab area is closed off to the outside. Just be sure you turn it off 10 seconds before you turn off the engine to give it time to move the internal louvers with the vaccuum system.

[ScottMack]

Most of this copied from one of my previous posts:

Our Winnie has all of the cold weather options that were factory available in 2010. That said, here's the problem:

We have water lines that run through the galley cabinet, the bathroom cabinet, under the floor across the hallway to under the shower pan, to under the bedroom vanity and under the closet - (just under the closet drawers) to the water heater.

Every single one of these locations - even though they are inside the motorhome, get well below freezing - I know this because we got caught for five days in a surprise snow storm and the temps did not make it out of the low 20's. - we rushed to winterize and lived out of water jugs - I put thermometers in those locations out of curiosity. These areas are closed off to any air circulation - even with the cabinet doors opened, the temps in several of those compartments remained well below 32 degrees for days. The park rangers came around and turned on all of the water faucets (full hookup Texas state park) and most of those still froze solid - (we have some cool pics!). (This was in an area of Texas that sees freezing temps for that long of a stretch once every 100 years or so!!)

As a result, I wired every single one of those areas with sockets for (standard incandescent) light bulbs. Granted, we need shore power for this to work, but we can leave the water system "wet" and functional in a pinch. We seldom dry camp when the temps are generally below freezing, so we would likely be in a location with electricity (or would have to run the Onan).

Also, if you have a Ford chassis, you need to have the engine running when you turn the chassis heat/air off - otherwise, the vents do not close and you will have a major entry point for the cold air (or hot air in the summer). Ford uses the engine vacuum lines to physically close off the system from the outside air.

[ron_dittmer]

Bordercollie wrote:
Don't mean to be a smartaleck but arriving in an all-wheel drive car and staying at a nice motel or hotel, lodge,etc. near winter recreation areas seems like a better idea than trying to stay comfortable in almost any RV in really cold weather.

This is my thought as well.

But one trip in our first motor home in late March to the desert, we planned to enjoy the weather in the region that time of year. We ended up camping in snow with sub freezing temperatures all day long which was way too cold for that rig. At Arches NP, we didn't see any arches until day 3 due to white-out conditions the first two days.

So it happens even when planning for the opposite. With our current rig, it's nice to know we are equipped for whatever temperatures lie ahead.

[nevadanick]

I have been in 12 below in my TT and everything worked. There is absolutely no reason someone should not be able to use a properly built MH in cold weather. Like i said about looking at Bigfoot as everything is in heated space so as to be used in cold weather.

[Harvard]

Another problem for the winter RVer is finding dump stations that remain open off season.

[Bordercollie]

Don't mean to be a smartaleck but arriving in an all-wheel drive car and staying at a nice motel or hotel, lodge,etc. near winter recreation areas seems like a better idea than trying to stay comfortable in almost any RV in really cold weather.

[ron_dittmer]

Seek a Made-For-Cold class B or B+/C The OP needs to look for these features.

- well insulated floor, walls, & ceiling
- good quality, well sealing windows also with thermal pane glass
- fresh water tank and all pressurized plumbing located inside where it is warm
- heated waste tanks
- a large propane tank to handle excessive furnace usage.
- insulated exterior storage compartments including the doors
- slideouts leak air, especially very cold air
- smaller is better because less floor/wall/ceiling means less cold penetration.
- given all else equal, a B+ will be warmer than a C.

Regardless of what you buy, the following should be planned for.

The biggest place of cold infultration is the front cab area. Plan to come up with something home-made. Most winter campers are successful hanging a good thick quilt to seal off the cab area.

For extreme cold camping, plan on using home made insulation for every window. Foil-backed bubble wrap sunshade material is very popular.

Plan on block foam insulation to seal every roof vent. Those vents seal well but the dome is thin plastic. Cold radiates right through them.

[gerrym51]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Never use an unvented combustion heater inside an RV.

i would agree never during sleeping hours but if during day and keeping small window open an inch can be done

[Golden_HVAC]

Look under the dinette seat for the fresh water tank. Sometimes if there is a couch, then they will put the tank under there. While a inside water tank has the pump inside, and it is a bit noisier, the benifit is of course it will stay warm all winter.

Most class C and B will have a grey and black water tank underneath, not in a heated basement storage like a class A. So your tanks might freeze. This might damage the drain valve and piping, but might not. You can always drive out of the mountains, let it sit in the 50's weather of your hometown for a day or two, then drain at your local RV store, or some gas stations have a dump station, some at the City Sewer Department, or local RV storage lot.

With the Olympic catalytic heater, you do need to keep a roof vent open about 1/2" and it helps to have a Maxx air cover over the top of the roof vents. I have used one safely since 1994, without problems, and at 19F outside, I keep my RV around 70F inside with minimal furnace run time. A 20 - 23' long RV should do better. Especially if you get a windshield cover (keeps the early morning light out too) and perhaps hang a blanket over the front drivers area. The dash air vents will let in some air all the time, depending on the wind direction and strength, it can be a bunch of air.

Remember to open the roof vent and window about 1/2" whenever using your stove. While not recommended to heat the RV, if you happen to cook something in the oven, it will warm the RV significantly, and with it's 19,000 Btu burner will warm it quickly.

Also consider making coffee on the stove. You can find perculators at some locations, and it works OK. However many prefer this way. Get ahold of a old Mr. Coffee filter holder. (garage sale, or a coffee maker that has a broken caraffe, and you don't use it anymore.)

Put in a filter and get out your coffee cups +1 extra. Add a tablespoon of coffee, and set over your first cup, add about a cup of boiling water, and then move to the next cup, add a tablespoon more coffe, and continue around the table, until the last cup. The coffee will continue to drip a bit, so the last cup will keep things dry, and you can start over anytime with more hot water.

Coleman used to make a toaster that fits on top of a stove burner, however I was never impressed with the results, and prefer to butter my toast and cook in the oven broiler.

The people who wrote in about using space heaters and a electric blanket have "Great" tips "If" you are in a campground or have 120 volt power to your site. However it will not work at all if you are in the parking lot of the local ski resort, and they are not offering 120 volt power to it's customers. Thus the Olympic Catalytic heater.

You can bring along a hair dryer, 1,500 watt heater, and perhaps a electric toaster or toaster oven, just only use one at a time if you have a 20 amp circuit that you are plugged into. Or two at a time if you have a 30 amp RV style hookup. Each will draw close to 12.5 amps.

I liked running two electric heaters on low heat setting, one in the front one in the rear bedroom, that would move to the bath when occupied. They have thermostats, and I can leave them on at night, or while out sightseeing.

So you might ask - what is more expensive - gas furnace or paying 9 cents per KW for a electric heater? it takes 22 KW of electric to make 80,000 Btu's of heat, about what 1 gallon of propane will make - given the furnace is about 80% efficient. 22 KW at 9 cents per KW is $1.98. Your propane is probably more expensive than the electric.

You will probably want 2 "House" batteries, something that you will have a lot more roof for in a class C than a class B. Also you typically get at least 25 gallons and probaly 35 - 40 gallons of fresh water in a class C, while many class B's only have a 9-15 gallon fresh water tank. Class C will have a 6 gallon water heater, B might be 6 or smaller. Winnabego might have a engine heated hot water tank too, in a class C.

Fred.

[garyhaupt]

Are you planning all year round usage or winter weekends? There is a huge difference. Almost any C or B or camper will work for a weekend, you just have to learn how to do it, in winter/cold months. If you are talking full time, then that is a whole different animal.

There are some units that are better designed for cold weather, than others. How deep are your pockets?

From Canada there are Big Foot C's and Triple E Regal..both have a cold weather capability. Thermal windows, high R insulation, etc.

From the US, there are lots of choices..Lazy Daze, Tiger, Born Free, to name 3.

You need to figure what you best case scenario is. Some have more living room than others, but if you are weekends only, then any of them will work. It really gets down to $$'s. You can easily spend a hundred grand..or $5,000 and do all of the camping, boondocking, skiing you could ask for. Again...what are you going to do with it?

Take a look at the Public Lands, Boondocking Forum for ideas. And ask people that you see parked. Not the fancy rigs...the hardcore looking ones. Phone a ski shop..call several and ask around for someone that does that stuff..snow camping for skiing. THAT, my frind, is a whole different thing.


Gary Haupt..and I live up north.

[Handbasket]

The only B I know of for certain that has some winter capability is the Chevy-chassis Roadtrek 190 (and probably the 210). They have a small (10 gal?) internal water tank, with a larger one located underneath. All the FW pump lines for the internal tank are inside. My '02 C190 Popular had a split black tank, too, with part inside (not sure than still do that). I used RV antifreeze in the gray tank.

There are probably others that I don't know about, since I've been a C owner for the past 7 1/2 years.

Jim, "You never really learn to wear until you learn to drive."

[nevadanick]

You will have to buy a used one and they are hard to find but look at a Bigfoot, they are great for cold weather as everything is in heated space.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Never use an unvented combustion heater inside an RV.

[seakayakerski]

Wow!Great informative responses... thank you and keep it going. I read a great article on keeping class B rvs warm in colder temperatures and will reference later since good for class C too. Space heaters and adding insulation were major suggestions. Seems difficult to impossible to keep external water tanks and lines from freezing. Thanks again and look forward to further info and suggestions.

[Golden_HVAC]

See if you can find a Lazy Daze in your area. They do not have slide outs, and are well built, compact, have a pantry in most models, and are fairly well insulated.

Best of all, they probably have a space to set up a 6,000 Btu Olympic Catalytic Safety Heater. It will keep the RV warm even down to 0F outside temps, without using up any battery power.

Look for a RV that has a place that you can set up a heater in it. I had one with a leg kit, quick disconnect, and dust cover. That way I could keep it clean when not in use, and would store it in a closet. It kept my 30' Bounder toasty warm on high at 28F outside, and below that, I would run the furnace a bit to keep the basement warm, and the inside at 70 by running the furnace about 10 minutes per hour.

Fred.