Did CHF. Ride is better. Wheels off the ground when leveling

[kmb1966]

A few weeks ago, I did the cheap handling fix (CHF). Yes I can see an improvement in the handling of my F53. But now when I level the motorhome, my front wheels are slightly off the ground. Is this a problem? They are not really high off the ground but they are just enough off the ground to turn the tire by hand.
I've never had that happen before, and if it is a problem, I suppose I could change to using leveling blocks instead of the HWH levelers. My site is not super unlevel so I was a little surprised when I looked at the front tires and saw they were technically lifted off the concrete pad.

[hohenwald48]

I didn't use the adjustable links. I simply welded up some new ones. I made mine 12.5" long. It's different for different motorhomes so yours may vary. What I did was measure from the center of the upper bolt to the center of the inner hole (new location of link) on the anti-sway bar while I still had to old link installed in the original hole and while parked on a level spot. That way the angle of the anti-sway bar remained the same as before doing the CHF. It's not really critical and being off a little won't matter as long as the bar doesn't contact the leaf springs.

[kmb1966]

hohenwald48 wrote:
I think if you do the CHF without lengthening the front links, some will find the stock links pull the sway bar up enough to contact the front leaf spring. I haven't read of anybody having this happen in operation but have heard of it when parked and raising the front end to level. Lengthening the front links solves the problem.

Thanks for the information here. Can you tell me what length I should set the Hellwig 7962 links when I go to install them?
Now that I have already done the CHF, I am unsure of how to proceed with the new adjustable links.
Thank you in advance.

[tropical36]

kmb1966 wrote:
A few weeks ago, I did the cheap handling fix (CHF). Yes I can see an improvement in the handling of my F53. But now when I level the motorhome, my front wheels are slightly off the ground. Is this a problem? They are not really high off the ground but they are just enough off the ground to turn the tire by hand.
I've never had that happen before, and if it is a problem, I suppose I could change to using leveling blocks instead of the HWH levelers. My site is not super unlevel so I was a little surprised when I looked at the front tires and saw they were technically lifted off the concrete pad.

Surely the front wheels aren't off the ground on a perfectly level surface or are they???
Whatever the case, it doesn't hurt a thing, no matter how far off the ground they are and no matter what's written somewhere. Being level is a lot better for the slides, and an RV fridge, as well.
Just be sure the rear wheels are making contact, as already stated.

[georgelesley]

hohenwald48 wrote:
I think if you do the CHF without lengthening the front links, some will find the stock links pull the sway bar up enough to contact the front leaf spring. I haven't read of anybody having this happen in operation but have heard of it when parked and raising the front end to level. Lengthening the front links solves the problem.

That is correct. The problem started when Ford moved the top bolt for the link forward. I don't know what year model that was. Now the SB is pointed almost in a straight line with the link when the CHF is done on the front. That causes a backward force on the SB as well as a downward force, which may result in undue wear on the SB bushings and less sway control as well as possibly hitting the springs.

Either adding brackets or an adjustable link will work, adding the bracket plates offers the oportunity to quickly switch back to original Ford geometry, or adding/subtracting the effect on sway control depending how many holes you drilled in the brackets. There are many diy variations posted.

[hohenwald48]

I think if you do the CHF without lengthening the front links, some will find the stock links pull the sway bar up enough to contact the front leaf spring. I haven't read of anybody having this happen in operation but have heard of it when parked and raising the front end to level. Lengthening the front links solves the problem.

[georgelesley]

DryCreek wrote:
Will the CHF alter suspension geometry?
I believe the answer is YES in - with a caveat. I think that it depends on the GVWR for the F-53 chassis it is performed on. My Winnebago 29R is on the Ford 18K lb. GVWR chassis. When I moved the stock front sway bar links to the back hole the bar and the links were nearly in line, and my suspension travel was shortened somewhat. I went with the Hellwig 7962 adjustable sway bar links and set them to maintain the OEM geometry. Suspension travel was returned to stock parameters. Plus, I could take the front stock sway bar links and use them for the CHF on the rear. The front links are exactly one inch longer than the stock rear ones. I didn't want to get in a bind and have the upper end of the sway bar possibly contacting the VSS mounted in the top of the differential housing.

It may be that the F-53 chassis rated for higher the GVWR have different sway bars or end links. Or maybe the slight differences between chassis runs through the years? Just kinda' grasping at straws there - as I've seen posts where some have had no change and others (like me) did.

There is a thread on another forum with over 300 pages of results about this mod.. Many of us have spoken to the Ford hotline about it and they have no reason not to do it. When several years ago they moved the front link it has caused the sway bar to be at an awkward angle after doing the CHF and some have interference with springs and some other parts. The fix is easy and cheap. Brackets can and are made to keep the sway bar level and the geometry in the original position. In fact, it can even be adjusted to make the sway bar more level than original if desired. Helwig makes an adjustable link that will also work.

There is a gentleman on that forum that makes these brackets for all comers at a very modest price. I think he charges around 30-40 bucks. A few new bolts and that is all the cost there is. You can have a local machine shop make the brackets for probably under $20 or so.

The bigger concern is that many of us (myself included) have discovered the bolts holding the sway bar brackets to be loose or missing, especially the rears. There is also a thread of many pages on that same forum discussing this problem. The fix is easy if the problem is caught in time before the brackets become loose and fail. Just remove the bolts apply blue locktite and reinstall and torque to 66lbs.

On our MH all four rear bolts were loose and two of the front bolts were loose or not at correct torque. One on the rear had already broken the spot welded nut off the frame and was a real challenge to retorque, but I finally figured out a way to do it. I used blue locktite on all.

Checking them is now on my "check once a year" list.

[DryCreek]

Will the CHF alter suspension geometry?
I believe the answer is YES in - with a caveat. I think that it depends on the GVWR for the F-53 chassis it is performed on. My Winnebago 29R is on the Ford 18K lb. GVWR chassis. When I moved the stock front sway bar links to the back hole the bar and the links were nearly in line, and my suspension travel was shortened somewhat. I went with the Hellwig 7962 adjustable sway bar links and set them to maintain the OEM geometry. Suspension travel was returned to stock parameters. Plus, I could take the front stock sway bar links and use them for the CHF on the rear. The front links are exactly one inch longer than the stock rear ones. I didn't want to get in a bind and have the upper end of the sway bar possibly contacting the VSS mounted in the top of the differential housing.

It may be that the F-53 chassis rated for higher the GVWR have different sway bars or end links. Or maybe the slight differences between chassis runs through the years? Just kinda' grasping at straws there - as I've seen posts where some have had no change and others (like me) did.

[FIRE_UP]

Effy wrote:
Can't see how there is any correlation of the CHF and wheels being off the ground when leveling other than coincidence. It does not change the travel of the suspension, it just changes the resistance. And no, having fronts off the ground is not an issue. All that said, I never use the auto level function. It does some weird stuff including lifting wheels off the ground when they don't really need to be. I use manual mode to level. Same result with less drama. My auto level was causing some major body twist and I really don't understand why it does what it does sometimes. I can level in half the time with less frame stress doing it manually.

Since you don't say anything about it, I'm assuming you've never adjusted the sensor for your auto-leveling system. I don't know what kind of system you have but, in our coach, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT, we have the HWH Computer Controlled Automatic Leveling System. It worked flawless for quite a few years then, for some odd reason, it got out of whack.
I did about 5 minutes research on the net and found the adjustment procedures. It took me about 3-4 minutes for adjustment and, the auto -leveling system is now flawless again.
As for wheels off the ground, NOPE, NEVER DONE IT. I take just a minute or two to place a couple of ramps and, drive up on them. Then, a block or so under the jacks for fine tuning and in the end, it took me about 5 minutes and I have 10 points touching the ground for stability and leveling. And the coach is not tweaked in any particular direction.
Scott

[Jim_Norman]

With a spring suspension hanging the front wheels should be OK, but you could just drove up onto a couple blocks. With Airbags this is a BIG No-No. You could damage the bags, ie, pull them apart.

[atperci]

As others have said, as long as the rear wheels are still on the ground, its no big deal.
We were at the beach one time and the wanted the door to be on the leeward side of the motorhome. So we had to pull in nose first, which left the front wheels a foot or so off the pavement. After leveling, the front wheels were more 12" off the ground. Had drive onto blocks to give the jacks enough height to level but no problems. The kids thought it was funny seeing the wheels turning by themselves in the wind.

[georgelesley]

kmb1966 wrote:

georgelesley wrote:
I have also done the CHF. I cannot see how doing it would cause any change in the front wheels being on or off the ground. If you use auto level perhaps it needs recalibration. I now manually level because I noticed the auto level did lift the MH higher on all jacks than necessary.

Having the front wheels off the ground is no problem but never either of the rear wheels. Both rear wheels must be on the ground for the parking brake and transmission park gear to work.

Yes, it does ride with less sway when trucks pass, sudden wind gusts etc. Some say the ride is a bit harsher, we did not notice any change

IMHO the best improvement for the money is the CHF which is free or close to it. The next improvement is a rear track bar. It will fix the rear end tail wagging syndrome and make steering much, much easier with far less back and forth corrections needed. Cost about $500-600. I installed ours myself. Some make their own for $150 or so, I was not that brave.

Could you tell me which Rear Track bar you purchased and installed yourself? I'd like to give that a try if it isn't too difficult.
Thanks for the feedback on the CHF and front wheels.

I got mine from Henderson suspension in Eugene, OR if I remember correctly. Same thing as the Blue OX, but about $100 cheaper. I did it myself, having a helper to hold the bolt while you torque it would help. You need a 150lb torque wrench and some large sockets, I don't remember what size, fortunately rummaging around the tool box I found them.

[Effy]

Can't see how there is any correlation of the CHF and wheels being off the ground when leveling other than coincidence. It does not change the travel of the suspension, it just changes the resistance. And no, having fronts off the ground is not an issue. All that said, I never use the auto level function. It does some weird stuff including lifting wheels off the ground when they don't really need to be. I use manual mode to level. Same result with less drama. My auto level was causing some major body twist and I really don't understand why it does what it does sometimes. I can level in half the time with less frame stress doing it manually.

[kmb1966]

georgelesley wrote:
I have also done the CHF. I cannot see how doing it would cause any change in the front wheels being on or off the ground. If you use auto level perhaps it needs recalibration. I now manually level because I noticed the auto level did lift the MH higher on all jacks than necessary.

Having the front wheels off the ground is no problem but never either of the rear wheels. Both rear wheels must be on the ground for the parking brake and transmission park gear to work.

Yes, it does ride with less sway when trucks pass, sudden wind gusts etc. Some say the ride is a bit harsher, we did not notice any change

IMHO the best improvement for the money is the CHF which is free or close to it. The next improvement is a rear track bar. It will fix the rear end tail wagging syndrome and make steering much, much easier with far less back and forth corrections needed. Cost about $500-600. I installed ours myself. Some make their own for $150 or so, I was not that brave.

Could you tell me which Rear Track bar you purchased and installed yourself? I'd like to give that a try if it isn't too difficult.
Thanks for the feedback on the CHF and front wheels.

[georgelesley]

I have also done the CHF. I cannot see how doing it would cause any change in the front wheels being on or off the ground. If you use auto level perhaps it needs recalibration. I now manually level because I noticed the auto level did lift the MH higher on all jacks than necessary.

Having the front wheels off the ground is no problem but never either of the rear wheels. Both rear wheels must be on the ground for the parking brake and transmission park gear to work.

Yes, it does ride with less sway when trucks pass, sudden wind gusts etc. Some say the ride is a bit harsher, we did not notice any change

IMHO the best improvement for the money is the CHF which is free or close to it. The next improvement is a rear track bar. It will fix the rear end tail wagging syndrome and make steering much, much easier with far less back and forth corrections needed. Cost about $500-600. I installed ours myself. Some make their own for $150 or so, I was not that brave.