Electric Van hool coach. Predecessor to first elec cls A?

[Reisender]

Obviously probably a few years away and there will have to be some pretty big spots at DC High power and high speed charge facilities. But hey. Gotta start somewhere. 🙂

This things battery is literally 8 times the size of our Tesla battery. LOL 🙂





Here is the link.

https://insideevs.com/news/461586/van-hool-ships-first-electric-coach-us/

[valhalla360]

JRscooby wrote:

How about school busses? A lot of delivery truck routes? Utility company trucks?

School buses and delivery trucks are moving toward EV but a tour bus chassis isn't applicable for either of those uses. There have been use specific chassis developed for these other uses.

[JRscooby]

Reisender wrote:
Not the tour busses around here. They might run an hour or two out to a winery, unload Chinese or German or Austrian or Japanese tourists. Two hours later they load them back up and bring them to a waterfall or dome other attraction half an hour away, rinse repeat. At the end of the day I doubt they have gone 400 km. And most of the wineries around here have level 2 chargers although a 10 KW charger wouldn’t put much in a battery that size. Still. Routes like this are super common for tourist outfits around here. The bus sits all night at the hotel.

We have been on tour busses all over the world. And this kind of schedule is common.

How about school busses? A lot of delivery truck routes? Utility company trucks?

JoeH wrote:

But if instead of subsiding the coal and gas companies we helped everybody put solar panels on their roof, and storage capacity so that solar power could charge the clean cars...

[Reisender]

JoeH wrote:

It’s actually a good representation. Power plant emissions are much easier to control than tail pipe emissions. And in many countries the power plant is a lower emissions source. Hydro, wind, solar, even natural gas.

Cheers.

[JoeH]

[valhalla360]

dodge guy wrote:
It sound like we are on the same page, I just am not an electric junkie, so explaining what I am thinking may not be coming out right. Although I have been researching solar for our class A, and am learning a lot reading and watching you tube videos/tutorials. I've also learned a lot from the You tube guy 'DIY solar with will pro use'. That's the extent of my solar/electric knowledge. Other than I am trained on Hybrid cars, but that's only the repair end, not th intricacies of its operation!

Solar is great for covering the house loads...particularly if you don't need air/con.

Air/con is at least an order of magnitude more power demand. It can be done but you need a pretty massive and expensive system. For the most part it's going to be cheaper to just run a generator.

Propulsion is an order of magnitude beyond what you need for air/con.

This is why it works if you flip it backwards. Build a battery bank that can handle propulsion and you can syphon off a small percentage of that power and cover house loads if you aren't using the maximum range. In fact, you can probably skip the generator and simply enlarge the battery bank for a cost neutral option that can also extend the range if you need it.

[dodge_guy]

valhalla360 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Let's say you managed to load 3kw of solar panels on the roof...you would expect maybe 12kwh into the batteries per day if there are no house loads...it would only take 56 days to charge the battery bank or a little over 5 miles of range per day. Assuming you are running pair of air/con

Not saying solar on an RV is bad but really for propulsion it's not really viable.

The opposite is more viable...assume you leave home on a full battery bank and go out 100miles to boondock. That will eat up around 225kwh and assuming a return trip propulsion will be around 450kwh for the weekend. That leaves around 225kwh in the battery bank unused. If you can redirect that to house loads, you can pull 3kw for 3 days continuous. That's generally going to be enough to keep a pair of air/con units going 24/7 for a long weekend with no generator usage.

Of course, we still don't know the assumptions for the 311mile range. It could be drastically less at freeway speeds and how much higher is the price compared to the equivalent diesel bus.

If it's equal cost and 311 miles is based on freeway speeds, it will likely be a winner...but I'm betting this is not the case.

I am talking strictly the driveline portion of the MH. Leaving the house side out of it, I would think some strong panels on the roof would give you extended range. I’m not talking 300 more miles, but maybe another 150?

Go back and read my response. If you cover the roof, you might get 3000w of panels which should generate about 12kwh into a 676kwh battery bank.

150miles? Assuming the 311mile range is realistic, 12kwh translates to maybe 5 miles.

It sound like we are on the same page, I just am not an electric junkie, so explaining what I am thinking may not be coming out right. Although I have been researching solar for our class A, and am learning a lot reading and watching you tube videos/tutorials. I've also learned a lot from the You tube guy 'DIY solar with will pro use'. That's the extent of my solar/electric knowledge. Other than I am trained on Hybrid cars, but that's only the repair end, not th intricacies of its operation!

[valhalla360]

dodge guy wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Let's say you managed to load 3kw of solar panels on the roof...you would expect maybe 12kwh into the batteries per day if there are no house loads...it would only take 56 days to charge the battery bank or a little over 5 miles of range per day. Assuming you are running pair of air/con

Not saying solar on an RV is bad but really for propulsion it's not really viable.

The opposite is more viable...assume you leave home on a full battery bank and go out 100miles to boondock. That will eat up around 225kwh and assuming a return trip propulsion will be around 450kwh for the weekend. That leaves around 225kwh in the battery bank unused. If you can redirect that to house loads, you can pull 3kw for 3 days continuous. That's generally going to be enough to keep a pair of air/con units going 24/7 for a long weekend with no generator usage.

Of course, we still don't know the assumptions for the 311mile range. It could be drastically less at freeway speeds and how much higher is the price compared to the equivalent diesel bus.

If it's equal cost and 311 miles is based on freeway speeds, it will likely be a winner...but I'm betting this is not the case.

I am talking strictly the driveline portion of the MH. Leaving the house side out of it, I would think some strong panels on the roof would give you extended range. I’m not talking 300 more miles, but maybe another 150?

Go back and read my response. If you cover the roof, you might get 3000w of panels which should generate about 12kwh into a 676kwh battery bank.

150miles? Assuming the 311mile range is realistic, 12kwh translates to maybe 5 miles.

[Reisender]

Not the tour busses around here. They might run an hour or two out to a winery, unload Chinese or German or Austrian or Japanese tourists. Two hours later they load them back up and bring them to a waterfall or dome other attraction half an hour away, rinse repeat. At the end of the day I doubt they have gone 400 km. And most of the wineries around here have level 2 chargers although a 10 KW charger wouldn’t put much in a battery that size. Still. Routes like this are super common for tourist outfits around here. The bus sits all night at the hotel.

We have been on tour busses all over the world. And this kind of schedule is common.

[dodge_guy]

valhalla360 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Let's say you managed to load 3kw of solar panels on the roof...you would expect maybe 12kwh into the batteries per day if there are no house loads...it would only take 56 days to charge the battery bank or a little over 5 miles of range per day. Assuming you are running pair of air/con

Not saying solar on an RV is bad but really for propulsion it's not really viable.

The opposite is more viable...assume you leave home on a full battery bank and go out 100miles to boondock. That will eat up around 225kwh and assuming a return trip propulsion will be around 450kwh for the weekend. That leaves around 225kwh in the battery bank unused. If you can redirect that to house loads, you can pull 3kw for 3 days continuous. That's generally going to be enough to keep a pair of air/con units going 24/7 for a long weekend with no generator usage.

Of course, we still don't know the assumptions for the 311mile range. It could be drastically less at freeway speeds and how much higher is the price compared to the equivalent diesel bus.

If it's equal cost and 311 miles is based on freeway speeds, it will likely be a winner...but I'm betting this is not the case.

I am talking strictly the driveline portion of the MH. Leaving the house side out of it, I would think some strong panels on the roof would give you extended range. I’m not talking 300 more miles, but maybe another 150?

Sorry, but I don’t see it being viable for use in buses. Buses run all day and night, they would have to be parked for multiple hours to get a full charge. That isn’t going to work in the transportation world!

[Reisender]

Dale.Traveling wrote:
This might work for an airport rental car or distance parking lot pick up and drop off, a moderate speed local tour bus or a very specific public transit or school bus route but not a for revenue service. If the bus isn't moving it's not making money and being down for five hours after moving for four might not be a working solution for a large potion of the for profit operators.

For an RV application using this configuration recharging a depleted 600,000 watt battery bank from a CG 50 amp service will take at least 50 hours. 30 amp will take a week. Drive for 5 and recharge for 50. The summer vacation drive from upstate New York to Fort Wilderness that used to take 3 days will now take 12 days. Describing this as a predecessor to an EV class A is a bit like describing a 1908 Model T as predecessor to a 2020 Shelby GT500. It did happen but it took over 100 years to get there.

I suppose. But it’s not an RV. It’s a bus. So who knows what the RV version would look like. Give it 5 years. We’ll see.

And of course people travel and tour in different ways. Our last North American tour in our Motorhome was around 14500 kilometers. It took us 5 and a half months. Other than maybe the prairies I doubt we ever travelled more than 300 kilometers in a stretch. And then quite often sat for up to a week.

Who knows. Maybe an integrator will integrate a 20 KW quiet Diesel generator for more autonomous ops when stationary or charging off grid. . Best of both worlds. Lots of variants possible. I would think the purchaser would configure it they way they want it. With the way range has been growing on electric vehicles in the last 10 years I would say a 500 mile range is achievable in the next 3 or 5 years. Charging. Well, that’s another challenge to figure out with these big suckers. It will be interesting to watch.

I remember when the leaf came out 10 years ago the critics were saying there really was no room for growth with battery density and at best we would ever see with EV’s would be around 300 km max range. :). That and 50 kw max charging rates or the batteries would melt. :). That didn’t age well at all. :).

[Dale_Traveling]

This might work for an airport rental car or distance parking lot pick up and drop off, a moderate speed local tour bus or a very specific public transit or school bus route but not a for revenue service. If the bus isn't moving it's not making money and being down for five hours after moving for four might not be a working solution for a large potion of the for profit operators.

For an RV application using this configuration recharging a depleted 600,000 watt battery bank from a CG 50 amp service will take at least 50 hours. 30 amp will take a week. Drive for 5 and recharge for 50. The summer vacation drive from upstate New York to Fort Wilderness that used to take 3 days will now take 12 days. Describing this as a predecessor to an EV class A is a bit like describing a 1908 Model T as predecessor to a 2020 Shelby GT500. It did happen but it took over 100 years to get there.

[valhalla360]

dodge guy wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but does it have solar panels to help it charge during the day driving. For RV use this would be great, for transportation I don’t see it working out, especially stop and go.

Let's say you managed to load 3kw of solar panels on the roof...you would expect maybe 12kwh into the batteries per day if there are no house loads...it would only take 56 days to charge the battery bank or a little over 5 miles of range per day. Assuming you are running pair of air/con

Not saying solar on an RV is bad but really for propulsion it's not really viable.

The opposite is more viable...assume you leave home on a full battery bank and go out 100miles to boondock. That will eat up around 225kwh and assuming a return trip propulsion will be around 450kwh for the weekend. That leaves around 225kwh in the battery bank unused. If you can redirect that to house loads, you can pull 3kw for 3 days continuous. That's generally going to be enough to keep a pair of air/con units going 24/7 for a long weekend with no generator usage.

Of course, we still don't know the assumptions for the 311mile range. It could be drastically less at freeway speeds and how much higher is the price compared to the equivalent diesel bus.

If it's equal cost and 311 miles is based on freeway speeds, it will likely be a winner...but I'm betting this is not the case.

[Reisender]

garyemunson wrote:
Actually, "stop and go" is the electric vehicle's forte. Regenerative braking helps extend range and lower speeds are much more efficient for electric vehicles. Reno NV has a number of electric busses in their fleet. Not a city bus rider but took a short trip on one to see what it was like. The silence and lack of vibration was impressive. I'm waiting to see if the Lordstown Motors/CW joint venture works. CW will have to up their service game but with their connection with Good Sam parks to install chargers, there is the promise of actually being able to have a usable electric RV. It wouldn't work for everyone but an RV that could cover 300 miles on a charge would probably suffice for 80% of the RVers out there. We rarely exceed that on a normal day. We have been driving an electric car for almost 9 years now and have gotten quite used to "filling up" for about 1/3 the price of a fossil fuel vehicle. Often overlooked is the fact every morning you leave the house with a "full tank". A different experience from something that uses gas. It got even better 3 years ago when we installed solar on the house and started charging for free. You also appreciate the practically non-existent maintenance on an electric vehicle.

Hey Gary. Watcha drivin. 🙂

[thomasmnile]

The public transit agency in Orlando has purchased several electric buses for use on their downtown circulator route. Perfect application for them. They run on streets in a dedicated lane by the curb. And the transit terminal is downtown, so they're easily switched out when charging is needed. Poor man's light rail without the overhead wire.