This also appears under a different post as well re: stretching Chassis. I'm looking for some more opinions / tech intelligence. We looked at a 31' Class C but rule it out in part because of some of what I have learned in these forums. Other considerations were it's very difficult to store at home & wife would not drive it. Also determined that for the type of travel we intend something shorter would be better. Saw a nice Itasca Spirit R22 but just too short. Now I'm going to look at a Winnie 25B. On paper looks nice. Priced right but now the confusion. I'm convinced, sure some of you are too, that the RV industry wants to keep us confused so we just throw in the towel and buy. Anyway, I have read some opinions that it is better to have the E450 under you then the E350. Reasons, such as the V10 won't work as hard as the E350 etc. There has to be obvious differences between the 2 chassis and I would like to know the trade offs. Normally the 350 comes with the 5.4L 8cyl and the 450 with with the 6.8L 10cyl. BUT this 25B is on a 350 chassis but comes with the 6.8L 10cyl and the same transmission as on both chassis. As it is still on the 350 the GVWR still remains 11,500lbs. So, I read that the some of the chassis differences are 450 has much (larger) more breaking capacity and a much HD rear axle & I assume at least a slightly bigger GVWR #. Okay good but is that all? is that enough of a reason to avoid the 350 chassis even with the V10? I would think the v10 answers the power issue but but am I still setting myself up for other performance disappointment on the 25B if it's on the 350 chassis. Thanks,PAT

We picked a 23' Class C E450 for the additional towing and load carrying ability. We tow a heavy 4x4 vehicle, and often travel with full fresh water tanks as we head into boondocking areas where getting water isn't an easy endevour.I feel it's really a personal need issue. Do you need to be able to tow heavier loads? Do you need to load the rig up and not worry about overloading? I doubt there is noticible difference in "seat of the pants" performance between the V10 in a E350 vs the E450, and I can assure you a V10 without our 5K lbs toad has some real "get up and go!" If the E350 V10 has the capacity you need, I don't see how you could be disappointed with performance.

I think the only significant difference between the 2 is the springs.

It is more than springs. The E450 has a 4.56 Dana 80 instead of 4.10's. That axle is also of a wider track width. I saw some Ford documentation as well the frame is of heavier gauge steel. All-in, it makes a 3500lb difference in GCWR besides upping the GVWR to 14,500lbs.

Very, Very, so let me say VERY important to look at the Specs for the exact Model Year (if not even the specific VIN and door jamb label) when evaluating the differences within E-350 and E-450 chassis. Some of the distinctions we remember from the early 2000's have gone away, but they went away in different ways and in different model years. Someone here could probably direct you to a Ford site that would explain a lot of this, but it could still depend on how a specific chassis was ordered (optioned) to know of a given E350 is "almost" or "not so much" like an E450.

Lumpty wrote:It is more than springs. The E450 has a 4.56 Dana 80 instead of 4.10's. That axle is also of a wider track width. I saw some Ford documentation as well the frame is of heavier gauge steel. All-in, it makes a 3500lb difference in GCWR besides upping the GVWR to 14,500lbs.They have gotten closer in the last half decade. E350 track has grown, so the E450 is not only 3.5" wider (rear track width) vs the 7" difference previously.E350 has the same 10.5" differential that the E450 used to have. The newer (2012+?) E450s now have a 10.75" rear diff. The E450 does have a heavier housing however, so it's rated ~9500 pounds vs 8500 for the E350. Brakes are now the same but the E450 brake booster does make more pressure (hydroboost vs vacuum boost). E350 has the same frame as the 14,050 GVWR E450 but the 14,500 GVWR does have a heavier frame.GCWR is the biggest difference, with the 4.10 gears (E350 optional) rated at 18,500 pounds and 4.56 gears rated at 22,000. Note that 4.56 gears are now standard on the E350 as well starting with 2016 models. 4.56 is the only ratio on E450s.

Ford E450 vs E350 under a Class C | Good Sam Community

Off_Pavement
Explorer II
Jan 08, 2017
We picked a 23' Class C E450 for the additional towing and load carrying ability. We tow a heavy 4x4 vehicle, and often travel with full fresh water tanks as we head into boondocking areas where getting water isn't an easy endevour.

I feel it's really a personal need issue. Do you need to be able to tow heavier loads? Do you need to load the rig up and not worry about overloading? I doubt there is noticible difference in "seat of the pants" performance between the V10 in a E350 vs the E450, and I can assure you a V10 without our 5K lbs toad has some real "get up and go!"

If the E350 V10 has the capacity you need, I don't see how you could be disappointed with performance.
theoldwizard1
Explorer II
Jan 08, 2017
I think the only significant difference between the 2 is the springs.
Lumpty
Explorer
Jan 08, 2017
It is more than springs. The E450 has a 4.56 Dana 80 instead of 4.10's. That axle is also of a wider track width. I saw some Ford documentation as well the frame is of heavier gauge steel. All-in, it makes a 3500lb difference in GCWR besides upping the GVWR to 14,500lbs.
j-d
Explorer II
Jan 08, 2017
Very, Very, so let me say VERY important to look at the Specs for the exact Model Year (if not even the specific VIN and door jamb label) when evaluating the differences within E-350 and E-450 chassis. Some of the distinctions we remember from the early 2000's have gone away, but they went away in different ways and in different model years. Someone here could probably direct you to a Ford site that would explain a lot of this, but it could still depend on how a specific chassis was ordered (optioned) to know of a given E350 is "almost" or "not so much" like an E450.
carringb
Explorer
Jan 08, 2017
Lumpty wrote:
It is more than springs. The E450 has a 4.56 Dana 80 instead of 4.10's. That axle is also of a wider track width. I saw some Ford documentation as well the frame is of heavier gauge steel. All-in, it makes a 3500lb difference in GCWR besides upping the GVWR to 14,500lbs.

They have gotten closer in the last half decade. E350 track has grown, so the E450 is not only 3.5" wider (rear track width) vs the 7" difference previously.

E350 has the same 10.5" differential that the E450 used to have. The newer (2012+?) E450s now have a 10.75" rear diff. The E450 does have a heavier housing however, so it's rated ~9500 pounds vs 8500 for the E350. Brakes are now the same but the E450 brake booster does make more pressure (hydroboost vs vacuum boost). E350 has the same frame as the 14,050 GVWR E450 but the 14,500 GVWR does have a heavier frame.

GCWR is the biggest difference, with the 4.10 gears (E350 optional) rated at 18,500 pounds and 4.56 gears rated at 22,000. Note that 4.56 gears are now standard on the E350 as well starting with 2016 models. 4.56 is the only ratio on E450s.
MobileBasset
Explorer
Jan 08, 2017
This is not what you asked but is a data point. I have the 25B (Itasca 2014) on a Chevy chassis. It is the 324-hp 6.0L GM Vortec engine (V8) and 6 speed auto transmission with overdrive and tow haul. In the literature it is compared to the E450 and of course GM claims it performs better. I chose the Chevy over Ford for the extra cab space and more comfortable ride and because the GVWR is 12300 lb rather than 11500. Fully loaded I run 10500 lb. with 1 person.
I have found it to be as powerful as I want it to be. I have taken it all over the east coast and through the Blue Ridge Mountains. I do not currently tow but I have enough GCWR to do that.
I get 9.5 - 10 mpg.
photobug
Explorer
Jan 08, 2017
I've got a 1996 26' lazy daze on the E450 chassis. At the weigh station with empty water and waste tanks, it turned out just under 12000 lbs. max gross weight is 14500lbs, my E350 ford super duty is about 6k lbs pretty much stock. max gross weight is is about 9500 lbs. Just by climbing under the vehicles, you can see significant differences in the chassis and running gear. Add the motor home body and you see a significant reason for the heavier chassis. Both have the v10 engine, but the motorhome has a significantly larger differential than the van. Add all the **** we take on a trip, and I can see exceeding the gvw really quickly on the lighter chassis.
DrewE
Explorer II
Jan 08, 2017
Others have pointed out (most of) the specific differences in the chassis better than I can. There are many things that go into meeting a weight rating, so I tend to think of it mainly as just a difference at that level and trust that Ford has done the engineering of all the chassis systems properly to ensure that it is capable of safely and reliably carrying the rated weight--which seems to be true.

I would like to note that the modular engines (the V8 and the V10 that have been used since the late '90s) have had occasional improvements and updates. The current V8 is pretty nearly on par with the V10 in my '98 motorhome, and I think it has adequate power. That's not to say that additional power would be at all useless, of course; but it manages as it is to go along the road just fine and is quicker than many tractor trailers.
carringb
Explorer
Jan 08, 2017
Basically, just make sure your fully loaded weight will be within GVWR and both are fine. On a lighter coach the e350 may be desirable for the smoother ride, and many commercial e350s run maxed out every day with no problems. The stiffer e450 springs, besides being able to carry more, will also improve the departure angle but the body configuration and wheelbase affect that more.
Desert_Captain
Explorer III
Jan 08, 2017
For most folks with a 25' or less class C the E-350 V -10 is plenty and the E-450 borders on over kill. It all comes down to how you are going to use it. If towing is in your future the 450 might be the better fit. The 450 has a stiffer ride and worse mileage but like the differences in chassis and brakes the differences are relatively minor. If I were towing heavy, say pulling a 4,500# Jeep, the 450 would be my choice

As noted above you MUST look at specific years and systems to even begin to compare apples to apples was there has been a lot of variation especially over the past 5 years. My 2012 Nexus 24' C {on a 2011 E-350 chassis}, has the 5 speed Torque shift transmission and came with a GVWR of 11,500# where the 2012 chassis bumped up to 12,500#.

We run close to our GVWR as I carry a lot of tools and toys and often tow my Harley Super Glide {bike and trailer are just under 1,000#}. The ride is smoother and having the same engine and trans as a comparable 450 {with far less weight}, I have more power and better mileage. Moving to a 450 would hold absolutely no benefit for me and the way we use our coach.

Phil will be along shortly to extoll the virtues of E 450 25' C... we have had this discussion a lot. :B