Leaking inner dual tire, need help finding leak

[willald]

A few years ago, I purchased and had installed a set of Borg Dually valve replacement valve stems. These valve stem replacements have been discussed on here several times, and everyone that has them (including me, for the most part) have been very happy with them. They make it 100 times easier to check, top off all the tires, and eliminate the risk of leaks like can happen with valve extensions.

I did have an issue with the valve stem on one inner dual tire leaking the day after the new valve stems were installed. I took it back to the tire place that installed the stems, they took it off and found the O-ring for the valve stem had not been installed properly, was crushed and leaking. They corrected that (replace O-ring), re-mounted tire. Problem solved - was basically a bad installation issue, not the fault of the valve stems at all (I hope!)

..Fast forward a few years up to now, I seem to be having a problem with one of the inner dual tires leaking air again. Noticed this several weeks ago when checking the tires, the passenger side inner dually tire is losing about 10 psi every week or so. Last week, I took it to the ONLY tire place close to here with facilities to handle large rigs like this (same place that installed the valve stems a few years ago). They took the tire off, sprayed it over and over with soap water, looked over entire tire several times. Also sprayed and looked close at the (very long) valve stem. I looked with them as well, and there was ZERO evidence of any leaks anywhere (no bubbles). They also grabbed the long valve stem, moved it around some while watching for leaks at the base. There were none.

Fortunately, they didn't charge me anything. They just mounted the tire back on and sent me on my way, told me to bring it back if it still leaks.

Well, sure enough, its still losing air - since Saturday, it has lost 8 pounds. I realize that air pressures drop some when air gets colder, and it has been cold. However, I don't believe thats the cause here. I've checked the other tires as well, and none of the other tires have dropped anywhere near this much pressure.

I'm not sure at this point, if I have another valve stem leaking, or a nail or something in the tire causing it to leak. Can find no evidence of either, unfortunately.

Sooo, now, I'm not sure what to do next. Hesitant to take it back to same place again, as I'm afraid they're going to be less than helpful, since they already checked the tire once so thoroughly and found no leaks. Would like to take it to a place I know is very, very good at finding, fixing tire leaks (Tire Kingdom), but their parking lot is tiny, and sloped enough there is no way I can take the MH there. I've found in general that most tire places want nothing to do with rigs like this, unless they are set up to handle large trucks.

I may try to jack up the MH, take the tire off, and take just that tire to a few places to have them look for leaks. That'd be best, I think, but I don't have a jack capable of lifting it (yet, been 'shopping' for such). Could use the leveling jacks, but absolutely hate that idea. I have an air compressor and impact wrench I use for the other vehicles, but not sure if it will get the lugs off on the MH, anyway. They are 150 ft-lbs by Ford's spec, but there's no telling how much torque it'll take to get them off.

Anyone have any ideas on what else I might do or ask a tire place to do, to find where, why this tire keeps leaking? DW just told me to go buy a new tire, but without even knowing if its the tire, valve stem, or even possibly the rim causing the issue, that doesn't seem like a very wise thing to do, haha. 🙂

Has anyone that uses Dually Valve stems, ever had a leaking issue like this? I really, really don't want to think that the dually valve stems are the culprit here, but not sure what else to think..

[willald]

aeejbe wrote:
This post is few months LATE on this thread. But interesting reading because recently I had to deal with an elusive leak from one of my tires... ... ...Or so I thought.
Found myself blaming the tire, & then blaming a defective(?) Borg Valve Stem, & then seriously hating on the tire repair shop for not trying hard enough to find the problem.
Turned out to be the damaged WHEEL that was the culprit. A tiny break in the weld seam caused by TOO MANY BAD POTHOLES along a certain stretch of interstate road in a certain other state. (Oh yeah. I remembered it well). Just another case of my tax dollars NOT working hard enough – soon enough! In my case, the cost of a new wheel was actually less than paying for a new tire.

And btw IF it’s not too late, & you’re still bent on getting more service from that tire they say is un-repairable... ... ...
Go "the old school route" & put an inner tube inside, & keep it rolling as a spare!

Wow, yes, a bit late on this one. 🙂

New tire last March fixed this problem (although was a very expensive fix!) Have watched the tire pressures very closely all year, leaking stopped after replacing the tire.

I kept the old tire for several weeks, hoping to find someone that would repair it so I could keep it as a spare. Took it to at least a half dozen different tire places, asking if they would repair it. All said same thing - no way, cut is too close to the sidewall. Sooo, eventually disposed of it, its long gone now.

Hadn't thought about putting an innner tube inside it so it could be used as a spare. Its all 'water under the bridge' now, but can you even get an inner tube that would fit, work for this size tire? I wouldnt think you could, given that they havent used inner tubes on this kind of tire in the last what, 30 years or so?

[aeejbe]

One More Thing, Wallaid:

This post is few months LATE on this thread. But interesting reading because recently I had to deal with an elusive leak from one of my tires... ... ...Or so I thought.
Found myself blaming the tire, & then blaming a defective(?) Borg Valve Stem, & then seriously hating on the tire repair shop for not trying hard enough to find the problem.
Turned out to be the damaged WHEEL that was the culprit. A tiny break in the weld seam caused by TOO MANY BAD POTHOLES along a certain stretch of interstate road in a certain other state. (Oh yeah. I remembered it well). Just another case of my tax dollars NOT working hard enough – soon enough! In my case, the cost of a new wheel was actually less than paying for a new tire.

And btw IF it’s not too late, & you’re still bent on getting more service from that tire they say is un-repairable... ... ...
Go "the old school route" & put an inner tube inside, & keep it rolling as a spare!

[willald]

Pekenoe wrote:
air the tire up, remove the extension, reinstall the extension to check pressure or check without extension in a week. still have loss, not the extension. Check original valve core or replace, repeat. I had loss around the threads on my extension, dab of silicone on the threads cured the problem.

I'm not using extensions, I'm using Borg dually complete valve stem replacements. And, I think we've pretty well ruled them out with this (see my previous post).

[Pekenoe]

air the tire up, remove the extension, reinstall the extension to check pressure or check without extension in a week. still have loss, not the extension. Check original valve core or replace, repeat. I had loss around the threads on my extension, dab of silicone on the threads cured the problem.

[willald]

Horsedoc wrote:
If you think it IS from a valve leak, you might try an old farm boy trick we used to use years ago. Take the valve stem out, put a light coating of Vaseline on it and re-insert. Saved a lot of foul language after we discovered that you can over tighten if you keep twisting.

Its not a valve leak (see my last post).

[Horsedoc]

If you think it IS from a valve leak, you might try an old farm boy trick we used to use years ago. Take the valve stem out, put a light coating of Vaseline on it and re-insert. Saved a lot of foul language after we discovered that you can over tighten if you keep twisting.

[willald]

One more update, and finally closure:

Well, turns out we were not done with this tire. After my last posting, I continued to watch the tire, and unfortunately, it continued to leak air. It actually seemed to get worse - got to where it was losing 'bout 4 or 5 psi a day, since last posting.

Since I had the Motorhome at the Ford dealer this last week, anyway, to have them take care of a warranty issue with the AC compressor, I told them to have a look at the tire, see what they could find. I should have gone there from the get-go! This Ford dealer is a large one, the only one around here that can handle big rigs like this (Crossroads Ford in Shelby, NC). They seemed to have quite a bit of expertise in dealing with tires like this.

Anyway, they indeed found a leak - a 1/4" long cut from some kind of road debris (have no idea what). Was unnoticeable until they put the tire in a submersion pool they have, and even then, had to watch very closely, as a bubble would only come up every now and then. That is why the other place never found it.

Here's the really unfortunate part - The cut is right up against the sidewall, they cannot repair or patch it. Arrrgh! 😞

Sooo, today, with several hundred $$ less in the bank account, the MH is finally back home, ready to hit the road, with a new inner dual tire that FINALLY does not leak. Also has a new AC compressor (dash AC), as old one was leaking oil (fortunately that part, Ford picked up the tab under warranty).

I kept the old tire (its in the garage). They marked very clearly where the cut is. I took a picture of it, too, that I think I'm going to try and post here later. If I can find someone willing to patch/repair it, I just might keep it as a spare. If not, the Ford dealer agreed to take it back and dispose of it properly for us.

Really, really hate to have to shell out this much $$ to replace a tire that was barely 3 years old, but at least now we know this problem is solved, and we can focus on more fun things, like getting back on the road, camping. 🙂

Anyway, sorry to dredge this topic back up, but I wanted to let everyone know what the true, final result from this was.

[willald]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Not sure about your rims but I do not have to dismount the tire to replace a valve stem. All I need to do is just compress the tire enough to reach the valve stem and replace it. Then you just let the tire spring back to be ready to inflate it again. The bottom bead is never broken.

On the Borg dually valve stems I have, there is a nut inside that you have to tighten down against the O ring, to seal the valve stem in place. Not sure if you could get a wrench on that nut and tighten it appropriately, just reaching through like you describe.

You make a good point, though, it may well have been possible to install the new Borg valve stems way back when, without dismounting entire tire from the rim. Thats all water long under the bridge now, though. 🙂

Will

[rgatijnet1]

Not sure about your rims but I do not have to dismount the tire to replace a valve stem. All I need to do is just compress the tire enough to reach the valve stem and replace it. Then you just let the tire spring back to be ready to inflate it again. The bottom bead is never broken.

[willald]

Update: Well, the tire is still sitting in the garage. I've been checking its pressure every day. Pressure has been holding steady at 95 psi since Monday, when I last posted. It is no longer leaking, best I can tell. 🙂

Sooooo, dis-mounting the tire from the rim and re-mounting it using the sealant, seems to have solved the problem. It must have had a slow leak somewhere around the bead. Slow enough, it was never noticed with soap water.

This actually makes (some) sense, now that I'm thinking more about the history of this tire: This particular tire has been un-mounted and re-mounted to the rim way more than usual - Once, when I first had the Borg valve stems put on. Then, a second time a week or so later, to correct the poor valve stem installation I mentioned previously. This was the only tire that had to be dis-mounted and re-mounted a 2nd time to get the Borg valve stem installation corrected. I guess, the 2nd time they put the tire back on the rim, somewhere, somehow, the bead just didn't seal right with the rim, resulting in a very slow leak that just now has got bad enough (2 psi a day) to be noticed.

I guess one lesson to be learned form this, is that one must be cautious when dis-mounting and re-mounting a tire to a rim any more than is absolutely necessary. Doing so increases the risk of the bead not sealing properly when re-mounting, and having a gradual leak like I did here.

Oh, one other thing: Anyone that lives around Gastonia, NC area, if/when you need tires or any tire service for pretty much any vehicle, you should go to Clark Tire! I normally don't mention a business by name on here, except when they've been really good and exceptional, and they have in this case. Those guys are awesome, have been great to work with through all this. Refused to take any $$ for working on this, even though I offered several times. When it comes time to put a new set of tires on the MH, I know exactly who I'll be going to for them. 🙂

Anyway, Saturday I will put the tire back on the MH, and hopefully put this one to bed. One really good thing that came from all this: Now, I have the tools to change a tire on this rig if I need to, and learned it really is not as hard to work with these tires as some might lead you to believe. 🙂

That, and having to take the MH to the tire dealer gave me the chance to fill it up with gas, and I got a FULL, 80 gallon load of fuel, while gas was just $1.98 a gallon here! Woot! Now, gas prices are definitely on their way back up, so I definitely got it filled up when fuel was 'bout as low as it was going to get. I'm ready for Spring. 🙂

[cudntherd]

I know from your post you have soaped the Tire and Stem for leaks.
Have you soaped the wheel and checked for leaks?

[willald]

JimM68 wrote:
If it's there... bite the bullet, ask them to"
Dismount it.
Inspect the inside.
Replace the entire valve assembly
Remount.
True and balance.

Odds I think are about 99% that this entire procedure will give you a tire that doesn't leak at the end of the day..

Well, Jim, what you describe here is more or less what they did today (I just got back a while ago, with the tire).

Tire was again sprayed with the soap water all around outside and valve stem. Nothing found. 'Tanking' it is not an easy option - No truck tire place around here has a 'tub' big enough to do this. Soo, could not tank it. 😞

Tire was dis-mounted from the rim. Entire inside was inspected thoroughly, no sign of any king of puncture or leak there. I personally ran my hand all the way around the inside looking for anything protruding through, found nothing.

Valve core assembly was removed, inspected thoroughly. It looked and was functioning perfectly fine, was put back in place as it was. Valve stem itself, including O ring on inside, was also thoroughly inspected. Looked perfectly fine.

Tire was re-mounted/re-sealed to the rim, this time using a special sealant stuff to help the bead seal to the rim (I forget the name of the stuff). He said if it was a leak around the bead where the tire meets the rim, this would solve it.

I have the tire back, filled back up with air. Will keep any eye on its pressure, see if it is still leaking. If it still leaks, next step, as much as I absolutely hate it, is probably going to be to replace the Borg valve stem with a regular stem.

I'm hesitant to put the tire back on the MH yet, until I know this issue is resolved. Sooo, until I know the leak is resolved, it will stay in the garage.

Will

[JimM68]

If it's there... bite the bullet, ask them to"
Dismount it.
Inspect the inside.
Replace the entire valve assembly
Remount.
True and balance.

Odds I think are about 99% that this entire procedure will give you a tire that doesn't leak at the end of the day.

Cost shouldn't be more than $30 -40...

Seems a good investment.

[willald]

Adirondacker wrote:
I was wondering if you ever tried to remove and reseat the inner spring-loaded pin from inside the valve stem.

Sometimes a little dirt or gum gets wedged in there while filling up the tires. By using a valve stem tool, you can unscrew the inner workings of the valve stem, view it, resecure it tightly, and refill it.

It has happened to me a few times on different car and bicycle tires. A three dollar valve stem tool saved me several times... You simply insert it into the stem and unscrew the spring loaded pin valve mechanism. Clean it up and re install it..

Any of the autoparts chains or Walmart will have them.

Edit: here is a Video Clip for the tool.

Thanks for the info there, good stuff to know. Will keep that in mind.

When they were checking with soap water, they poured some all around the valve stem, some inside, around the pin/valve inside as well. Was no evidence of air (bubbles) coming from there, but I guess it could be such a gradual leak through the valve stem, that it wouldn't show bubbles?

Well, I dropped the tire off at a truck tire shop this morning, and left it with them. Will see what they find. If they call and say no dice, just may ask them to go ahead and put a new valve stem core in, see if that solves it.

Will