Life lesson - In case you're not aware

[Tinstar]

I'll relate my recent experience for those of you that are unaware of some "new" policy with credit cards.

We made a recent trip from our home in the Dallas area to Carlsbad N.M. These transactions were on our MasterCard. On the way, I fueled up once without a problem. We got to the campground and paid for a couple of nights, went out to eat that night, paid our admission to the caverns and all is good so far. Later the next day, I had to buy a couple of tires due to a blowout on the way out there. When I went to pay the bill, my card was rejected. I had them run it again because I had a $10K credit limit and hardly anything on the card. Rejected again so I end up paying for the tires with a Visa and immediately called MasterCard. The customer service said it was rejected because I was out of my home area and the purchase was over $100,,,,, but I could now use my card to pay for the tires. Well, I had already paid for them with the Visa so that wasn't much help. Next day, I head back to Texas to continue my vacation. I get to a Travel Center and try to fuel up. My card is rejected, I go inside and try the card at the register,,, rejected. I fuel up using the Visa BUT before I got back in my m/h to leave I receive an automated message from Visa wanting to verify my identity. I go through all the prompts that I was me and I was the one making the purchase for fuel. When I get to my destination, we go out to eat and not only can I not pay using my MasterCard, now my Visa has been shut down.:M I go to my third card (another Visa) pay for our meal without a problem.

Next morning, I call MasterCard. I have to put in my information before I can talk to anyone. That triggered the call to be directed to their fraud department. I talk to a very nice gentleman that explained the whole thing. He said the Customer Service agent with whom I spoke with when in Carlsbad is not authorized to lift the fraud alert from my card and could only authorize a one time purchase. My account was flagged since I was out of my home area. They didn't call me to straighten it out because I had never given them permission to call me.:h Needless to say, I gave them permission and the flag was lifted. He said I need to go on-line or call them when I'm going to be out of my home area in the future so my account won't be flagged. That's not a problem for me and I appreciate them watching out for fraud but it would have been nice if I had known that in advance. Maybe they sent something in a bill and I just missed it,,, who knows? For the next week, I had no more problems with my MasterCard.

I now call Visa. Same story, they shut down my card because I was away from my home area. They authorized the one charge for fuel then shut the card down. I need to fill out the form with them when I'm going to be away.

OK, now I know. Just wish I knew before I left. I thought I was going to have to spend a few days at the tire shop changing tires (or washing dishes) for them to pay for the tires. For me, it certainly paid to have more than one or two cards. I actually carry 5 with me but normally never use anything other than the MasterCard.

Bottom line, if you use cards you might want to check with them and make sure you don't get flagged and shut down when you're away from home.

[AggieDad]

We have gotten to where we call two card companies and advise them of our travel plans. They will ask some specific questions, so you have to have your route pretty well nailed down. But we then have no problems with those cards while on the road.

To be honest, we find ourselves using cash more and more. First were the travel problems (before I started the notification process), and then It was the gas pump readers that were being hacked. So we have suddenly found ourselves back in the sixties, buying with cash.

[msmith1199]

FormerBoater wrote:

Tinstar wrote:

FormerBoater wrote:

Tinstar wrote:
FormerBoater, on paper and in a perfect world you are correct. The charges won't be on your account if they are from an unauthorized user. Unauthorized users bad credit won't be reported on your portfolio with the big three. Problem is, we don't live in a perfect world. Under your theory, (and that's what it is), I could go open up several credit card accounts in my own name, using my information and previous credit history, go out and max the cards out. When I got the 10's of thousands of dollars bills in the mail, I could just call V/MC and tell them, "it wasn't me" and they would just forgive the charges. BUT like I said before, "That's not the way it works." We live in a real world with real bad guys and dishonest people. I spent 40 years as a cop, 5 of that supervising the fraud unit in a large metropolitan police department. What looks good on paper and what really happens in the real world are not the same.

With that said, you should continue doing what works for you. For me, I think Visa and MasterCard probably know more than the average Joe on how to protect their assets and my identity from being stolen so I'll go with the law of averages and comply with their guidelines and rules.

You would not prevail in the above described scenario. You would be guilty of fraud and subject to criminal charges.

I don't understand why I would not prevail. I thought all I had to do was say "it wasn't me" and all would be forgiven.

NOW you are finally getting it; there's an investigation to find out if it was me or someone not authorized by me. Investigations take time; sometimes months and could take a year or more. It's possible for Visa or MasterCard to do some investigation but normally it's done by the local P.D. That P.D. may have 2 officers and no investigator or 1000 officers and 10 fraud investigators. One investigator is not just assigned one case until it's concluded. I had to assign as many as 15 - 20 cases a day to one investigator. That is where some of the delay comes from and it doesn't just happen overnight. That was my point insomuch as I don't want to have to go through that if I can make a simple phone call or fill out an automated web form before I leave for a trip.

You can only legally say, "No it wasn't me" if in fact it was not you.

The Affadavit that your Issuer would send to you for these transactions would result in a perpetration of fraud and theft for each of your purchases if you attest to the pretext that it was not you in the scenario you presented.

Local law enforcement is not involved, your issuer would simply determine that you in fact did make these purchases and insist upon payment. They would also likely cancel your account and turn the account over to collection if you did not remit in a timely fashion.

This would indeed affect your standing with the credit bureaus as it should, you after all are a criminal in the scenario you presented.

That is NOT what we are discussing here.

And BTW, you should comply with V and MC guidelines and rules, neither of which require you to log your itinerary with your Issuer.

And how in the world do you think the issuer is going to determine that it in fact was you that made the purchases? It can be done, I used to do it as law enforcement officer, but it is not easy at all. It requires a lot of field work and 90% of the time you can't determine who the actual user of the card was. Even with security video a lot of time it isn't of ID quality. Everything Tinstar is telling you is true and I also was in LE and I also worked fraud cases.

[msmith1199]

bshpilot wrote:

Effy wrote:

Of course not, it's a corp card with a whole different set of rules, many of which are travel allowances. And lets exercise some logic here. If you live one place and transactions are occurring at another, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are not home. If a customer service rep a 1000 miles from where you are (if not off shore) wanted to target your home while you are away, they already have all the information they need. The letting them know thing is to prevent your card from being cut off in a pre-emptive measure. That's all. It's not an invitation for a raid on your home. In your case it's a moot point if you are using a corp card so you don't have a dog in this fight.

excuse me (and your ill assumptions)....

i DO have a DOG in this fight....I do have (personal) responsibility & liability for my corp card and for your information i also use my personal card(s) when traveling on biz (for items that are not expense-able)...ive NEVER gotten a call from my bank when traveling (on biz).

again its NO ONE's business to know when or how long i am traveling.

Better leave your cell phone at home too. They know when you travel too.

[msmith1199]

FormerBoater wrote:

Tinstar wrote:
FormerBoater, on paper and in a perfect world you are correct. The charges won't be on your account if they are from an unauthorized user. Unauthorized users bad credit won't be reported on your portfolio with the big three. Problem is, we don't live in a perfect world. Under your theory, (and that's what it is), I could go open up several credit card accounts in my own name, using my information and previous credit history, go out and max the cards out. When I got the 10's of thousands of dollars bills in the mail, I could just call V/MC and tell them, "it wasn't me" and they would just forgive the charges. BUT like I said before, "That's not the way it works." We live in a real world with real bad guys and dishonest people. I spent 40 years as a cop, 5 of that supervising the fraud unit in a large metropolitan police department. What looks good on paper and what really happens in the real world are not the same.

With that said, you should continue doing what works for you. For me, I think Visa and MasterCard probably know more than the average Joe on how to protect their assets and my identity from being stolen so I'll go with the law of averages and comply with their guidelines and rules.

You would not prevail in the above described scenario. You would be guilty of fraud and subject to criminal charges.

Although he clearly would be guilty of fraud, this type of thing happens all the time. And I mean all the time. This is exactly why when you become the victim of fraud the credit card company makes you jump through so many hoops to clear it up. They want to make sure you're not really the fraudster.

[msmith1199]

FormerBoater wrote:

Kiwi_too wrote:
A store requiring valid ID to verify the authorized user of a CC is a violation of my privacy?? I throw the red flag on this.

It is against both Visa and MC rules unless requested by the Cardholder. To effect this the Cardholder simply writes on the signature panel to check the identification of the user.

If a merchant requests a valid ID to honor the card as a method of payment, the Cardholder has the right to complain to Visa or MC.

Visa or MC will contact the merchant's Acquirer with the complaint. The Acquirer must investigate and notify the merchant that this is in violation of Visa or MC rules (which the merchant is contractually bound to obey).

If the merchant does not cease and decest, card acceptance privileges can be revoked by either V or MC.

No way! I have a business and I take credit cards and no way in the world am I taking one unless I know the person, or I've checked their ID to make sure it matches the card. Visa or MC has never told me anything different.

[two_travelers]

We call credit card companies when ever we travel. On one trip we were in Alabama and the credit card company called and asked if we were in Oregon. Seems someone got our card number and tried to use it. Did not have to pay for any of the several thousand $ of charges. Person at bank said our vacation notice saved a lot of hassle.

[Tinstar]

You are right FormerBoater, you win, I was wrong. It was probably my imagination that I spent 5 years over the fraud unit investigating credit card fraud. I know that now since you told me that local law enforcement is not involved with it. I thought the whole thread is about fraud/theft since that is what they suspected when my card was cancelled while on vacation. I was wrong about that too. Oh, and I'm glad to know that V/MC won't shut my card down now if they suspect fraud. That was probably my imagination also. I'm relieved that I can now tell them they must approve any and all transactions that come their way and my transactions are none of their business. Thanks for the "life lesson" and your knowledge.

I'll unsubscribe too.

[bshpilot]

unsubscribe

[FormerBoater]

Tinstar wrote:
FormerBoater, I think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing now because this last post is getting to the point of being nonsensical.

Just trying to share information about how the payment system works and what we as Cardholders have with regard to rights and responsibilities.

Tinstar, you created the fraud/theft scenario as an argumentative and perjorative attempt to assert your correctness vs. the the rules and regulations of V and MC.

For those of us who do not want to serve as the fraud prevention department for our Issuing institutions, I made an effort to educate.

As the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink"!

[Tinstar]

FormerBoater, I think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing now because this last post is getting to the point of being nonsensical.

[FormerBoater]

Tinstar wrote:

FormerBoater wrote:

Tinstar wrote:
FormerBoater, on paper and in a perfect world you are correct. The charges won't be on your account if they are from an unauthorized user. Unauthorized users bad credit won't be reported on your portfolio with the big three. Problem is, we don't live in a perfect world. Under your theory, (and that's what it is), I could go open up several credit card accounts in my own name, using my information and previous credit history, go out and max the cards out. When I got the 10's of thousands of dollars bills in the mail, I could just call V/MC and tell them, "it wasn't me" and they would just forgive the charges. BUT like I said before, "That's not the way it works." We live in a real world with real bad guys and dishonest people. I spent 40 years as a cop, 5 of that supervising the fraud unit in a large metropolitan police department. What looks good on paper and what really happens in the real world are not the same.

With that said, you should continue doing what works for you. For me, I think Visa and MasterCard probably know more than the average Joe on how to protect their assets and my identity from being stolen so I'll go with the law of averages and comply with their guidelines and rules.

You would not prevail in the above described scenario. You would be guilty of fraud and subject to criminal charges.

I don't understand why I would not prevail. I thought all I had to do was say "it wasn't me" and all would be forgiven.

NOW you are finally getting it; there's an investigation to find out if it was me or someone not authorized by me. Investigations take time; sometimes months and could take a year or more. It's possible for Visa or MasterCard to do some investigation but normally it's done by the local P.D. That P.D. may have 2 officers and no investigator or 1000 officers and 10 fraud investigators. One investigator is not just assigned one case until it's concluded. I had to assign as many as 15 - 20 cases a day to one investigator. That is where some of the delay comes from and it doesn't just happen overnight. That was my point insomuch as I don't want to have to go through that if I can make a simple phone call or fill out an automated web form before I leave for a trip.

You can only legally say, "No it wasn't me" if in fact it was not you.

The Affadavit that your Issuer would send to you for these transactions would result in a perpetration of fraud and theft for each of your purchases if you attest to the pretext that it was not you in the scenario you presented.

Local law enforcement is not involved, your issuer would simply determine that you in fact did make these purchases and insist upon payment. They would also likely cancel your account and turn the account over to collection if you did not remit in a timely fashion.

This would indeed affect your standing with the credit bureaus as it should, you after all are a criminal in the scenario you presented.

That is NOT what we are discussing here.

And BTW, you should comply with V and MC guidelines and rules, neither of which require you to log your itinerary with your Issuer.

[Tinstar]

FormerBoater wrote:

Tinstar wrote:
FormerBoater, on paper and in a perfect world you are correct. The charges won't be on your account if they are from an unauthorized user. Unauthorized users bad credit won't be reported on your portfolio with the big three. Problem is, we don't live in a perfect world. Under your theory, (and that's what it is), I could go open up several credit card accounts in my own name, using my information and previous credit history, go out and max the cards out. When I got the 10's of thousands of dollars bills in the mail, I could just call V/MC and tell them, "it wasn't me" and they would just forgive the charges. BUT like I said before, "That's not the way it works." We live in a real world with real bad guys and dishonest people. I spent 40 years as a cop, 5 of that supervising the fraud unit in a large metropolitan police department. What looks good on paper and what really happens in the real world are not the same.

With that said, you should continue doing what works for you. For me, I think Visa and MasterCard probably know more than the average Joe on how to protect their assets and my identity from being stolen so I'll go with the law of averages and comply with their guidelines and rules.

You would not prevail in the above described scenario. You would be guilty of fraud and subject to criminal charges.

I don't understand why I would not prevail. I thought all I had to do was say "it wasn't me" and all would be forgiven.

NOW you are finally getting it; there's an investigation to find out if it was me or someone not authorized by me. Investigations take time; sometimes months and could take a year or more. It's possible for Visa or MasterCard to do some investigation but normally it's done by the local P.D. That P.D. may have 2 officers and no investigator or 1000 officers and 10 fraud investigators. One investigator is not just assigned one case until it's concluded. I had to assign as many as 15 - 20 cases a day to one investigator. That is where some of the delay comes from and it doesn't just happen overnight. That was my point insomuch as I don't want to have to go through that if I can make a simple phone call or fill out an automated web form before I leave for a trip.

[FormerBoater]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

FormerBoater wrote:

Unique transactions are for money transfers and gambling transactions.

Wrong interpretation of the meaning of the word, as is clear if one reads the language at the link I posted.

As used in the Merchant guide, the word "unique" means "individual". Each time a card is used is a "unique" transaction.

http://merchantwarehouse.com/glossary/unique-transactions

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=318923

Hope this clarifies. It is interesting that truck stops are included in the unique transaction category in the MC world.

Therefore, we as RV'ers should not be surprised at the truck pumps if ID is requested when presenting a MC as a form of payment.

[Francesca_Knowl]

FormerBoater wrote:

Unique transactions are for money transfers and gambling transactions.

Wrong interpretation of the meaning of the word, as is clear if one reads the language at the link I posted.

As used in the Merchant guide, the word "unique" means "individual". Each time a card is used is a "unique" transaction.

[FormerBoater]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

FormerBoater wrote:

It is against both Visa and MC rules unless requested by the Cardholder. To effect this the Cardholder simply writes on the signature panel to check the identification of the user.

If a merchant requests a valid ID to honor the card as a method of payment, the Cardholder has the right to complain to Visa or MC.

Visa or MC will contact the merchant's Acquirer with the complaint. The Acquirer must investigate and notify the merchant that this is in violation of Visa or MC rules (which the merchant is contractually bound to obey).

If the merchant does not cease and decest, card acceptance privileges can be revoked by either V or MC.

Untrue, at least for Mastercard, where requesting identification is in fact required for any face-to-face transaction unless activated by a PIN. Here quoting from page 3-2 in the latest Mastercard Merchant Guide:

Mastercard wrote:

When a MasterCard Card is presented, the Merchant representative must take the following steps to determine the validity of the Card.

..........snip.........
7. For face-to-face unique Transactions, request personal identification of the Cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document (for example, a passport, identification document, or driver’s license) that bears the Cardholder’s signature, the Cardholder’s photograph, or both. Compare the signature, if present, on the personal identification with the signature onthe Card. Compare the photograph, if present, with the person presenting the Card. Record the personal identification on the Transaction receipt.

Source: MC Transaction Processing rules, May 2014

Unique transactions are for money transfers and gambling transactions.

As we all know, our ID's are not requred for normal MC Point of Sale or online purchases.