mercedes sprinter chassis

[docsbrown]

we are downsizing from a diesel pusher to a class C.
We had a tiffin before current one and the Wayfarer caught our attention, but when studying it a bit the 702 lbs carrying capacity killed it for us.
so we are back on the drawing board, we like the View, and we know is the older model built on this chassis, but there are so many now.
We were at the TAmpa show yesterday and saw the new Synergy made from Thor, and the Melbourne Prestige made from Jayco.
when we shopped class A diesel pushers we avoided these two brands for not stellar reputation, does that apply also for their class C?
we also liked the little class A Via, but cant have it with the loft bed, and we need some kind of bed upfront.
Give me your opinion please, it is really valued.
Thanks

[CharlesinGA]

A number of folks have complained about the size of the Sprinter fuel tank. Mine, and for quite a few years after, are 100 Litre/26 gallon. When MB designed the 4 wheel drive system for the sprinter, they had to reduce the size of the fuel tank to about 24 gallons and they made this change universal rather than making two different fuel tanks. In a Sprinter van, its not an issue given the 24 mpg or so that they get, but in the motorhomes, with 16-17 mpg, it becomes an issue, especially out west where the fuel stations can be far apart.

Charles

[LunarSea]

The Tiffin Wayfarer on the Sprinter Chassis generator is Diesel.

[LunarSea]

ron.dittmer wrote:
Thor and Jayco are still lower-end brands based on everything I read on forums. The lower price translates to more issues of which new owners deal with. That old saying applies, you get what you pay for.

The ***Link Removed*** sure looks interesting. Too bad it is so heavy. A full-length slide out with a Murphy bed, or two slide outs, all add significant weight. A typical slide out adds around 600 pounds. I can see how it gets down to 700 pounds for you and whatever you bring on-board. Their website does not break the specs down per model leaving me to wonder if the twin bed model 24TW with one small slide-out could double that ridiculous 700 pound limit.

Are you dead set on the Sprinter chassis? There are many interesting shorter class B+ motor homes built on the Ford E350. You do seem to be diesel-seasoned, maybe staying away from gasoline models. But in-case you are curious, here are some considerations to thing about.
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Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine, Over The Sprinter Diesel
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions, you are low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford offers a great backup system. The V10 can safely idle for hours on end with 55 gallons of fuel to support it, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

[Oldtymeflyr]

Downhill braking on a Sprinter is in the transmission.

When you let off of the throttle in 5th (hi gear) there is some but little slowing effect.

Tap the gearshift to the left and each time you will drop a gear. With each lower gear there is more braking effect from the transmission. Tap the gearshift to the right to climb up a gear. The gear you are in will show up on the dash between the tach and speedo.

The shifts are limited by RPM, if you have too many RPM for the gear the transmission will not let you shift into that gear.

Recently we were coming down Raton Pass, in our Sprinter with a toad, settled on 3rd gear for the steepest parts, little foot braking necessary.

Rick

[ronfisherman]

Many of the pickup trucks like the Duramax use vanes in turbo to work as a Exhaust Brake. Closing the vanes does the same as a closing the baffle in a exhaust pipe type Exhaust Brake.

[wolfe10]

DRTDEVL wrote:


the invention of the Jacobs Engine Brake (Jake Brake). It opens the exhaust valves and closes the intake valves differently in order to create vacuum in the engine. The result of this is the loud B-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-P when going downhill or slowing down. Yes, some abuse these just to make noise, but its actually an important safety device.

Slight correction. An engine compression brake (aka Jake brake) works by allowing the piston to come up on the compression stroke-- it takes a LOT of energy to compress 18 or more "volumes" to 1. Then the exhaust valve opens, allowing all that compressed air to go out the exhaust. No fueling occurs during its activation.

With the throttle closed, engine compression brake OFF, the same compression occurs, but once the piston passes TDC, most of that energy is used to push the piston back down. So, with the exception of a small amount of friction, not much braking action occurs. No fueling occurs with the throttle closed (same as with engine brake or exhaust brake on).

Now, an EXHAUST BRAKE works basically like a "potato stuffed in the tail pipe". It provides back pressure (the amount speced by the engine manufacturer). The engine (basically a large "compressor" has to work harder/produce braking HP) to work against that back pressure.

[CharlesinGA]

You do gain a measurable amount of engine braking from a diesel, via the compression in the cylinders. When descending a steep grade I gear it down manually (it has a left-right tap up-down shifter) and will take it down to 1st if necessary, usually before beginning the decent. Short jabs of the brakes and its fine.

Charles

[DRTDEVL]

No, there is no tow/haul mode. The transmission is calibrated for hauling at all times, so it is unnecessary. As for engine braking, it is almost non-existent. This has to do with the differences between diesel and gas.

On a gas engine, the intake butterfly closes, creating a high vacuum within the engine. The computer shuts off the fuel supply, and you now have a very large, hard to turn air pump under the hood. This is what holds back your speed.

On a diesel engine, there is no butterfly, nor is there any vacuum. A separate pump is mounted to the engine to make vacuum for those systems. There is a slight braking effect from the engine, but there is no vacuum drawing down your speed. this is why you hear big rigs making a lot of noise on deceleration... the invention of the Jacobs Engine Brake (Jake Brake). It opens the exhaust valves and closes the intake valves differently in order to create vacuum in the engine. The result of this is the loud B-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-P when going downhill or slowing down. Yes, some abuse these just to make noise, but its actually an important safety device.

A more recent invention is the exhaust brake. These are more common on large DPs and buses, as they are nearly silent. Only a loud hiss is emitted by the exhaust, and most of that is quieted by the muffler. These do not offer as much braking effect as a Jake Brake, nor are they as long lasting and reliable (actuators get sooted up and stick, etc), which is why they are not commonly found in big rigs.

[pnichols]

I'm curious ... does the Sprinter have a mode in it's transmission like our E450's Tow/Haul mode?

I push a button on the end of the gearshift to engage Tow/Haul mode. In this mode the transmission automatically downshifts one gear whenever I lightly tap the brake pedal once. This is a real handy and quick way to maintain complete control on downgrades.

[loggenrock]

I find my B+ on the Sprinter chassis does well, as long as I back it down speed-wise before the start of the descent, and downshift appropriately. So yes, you can manually downshift.

[Commerce]

In my current DP I have an exhaust brake and LOVE it for use on steep grades , my question is since these units don't have an exhaust brake how have they handled on long grades and can you manually gear down in them ?

[pnichols]

Oldtymeflyr wrote:
In most respects it just a matter of what the owner likes and dislikes. We like our Thor/Sprinter.

Granted .... but part of what the opinions and experiences of others - as expressed in these forums - should be doing is helping folks to maybe scratch their heads a bit and rethink what they like or dislike.

(At least that's what happens to me when I read about what others are saying and doing. 🙂 )

[Oldtymeflyr]

pnichols wrote:
Here's my comments regarding a Class B+ or Class C RV built on a Sprinter chassis:

1. Coach walls and steps are too low to the ground - how you gonna take them reliably off paved roads?

Response: Not a problem. A rough two track, not good for any Class C.

2. Too tall for their dually track-width in the rear - they look unstable side-to-side.
3. Difficult to find emergency servicing when something goes wrong a long way from home.

Response: With modern computer operated vehicles-even a GM/Ford owner can have problems in the middle of nowhere. No question there are more GM/Ford shops. The key is a good vehicle in the first place, good maintenance, and good towing insurance. Freightliner (owned by MB) will perform service if there is not an available MB dealer. Also there are a lot of specialty shops that deal with the Sprinter. The same problem can be be said for Toyota, Honda, KIA etc. GM/Ford are more numerous.

4. They're not basement-design motorhomes - where's the several smaller outside storage cabinets that are actually tall enough to fit much into (in addition to the single main one that they all have)?

Response: We have more than enough storage, its one of the reasons we liked the Thor 25H/L.

5. I don't think that the double coach batteries are right under the doorstep - accessible from the outside or inside, rain or shine ... and kept a bit warm from being located just under the floor of the coach in cold weather. (Warm batteries perform better in the winter - which is when you need them most to perform up to their full potential.)

Response: Batteries are under the step.

6. If you want one with a stronger coach structure you must get one without slides. But without slides, they are just too narrow to get around in.

Response: This is a common issue to all RV's, I am not sure its a problem.

7. The commonly available Ford E450 and Chevy 4500 chassis under a motorhome means you can pretty much carry anything you want in them if you have one of those two chassis under a Class B+ or Class C motorhome up to around 28 feet long.

8. Diesel is available in whole lot of places but not "everywhere". Gasoline is available in just about every little podunk U.S. town.

Response: Not really a problem.

9. Not a lot of the Sprinter based rigs have a full cabover sleeper bed. You may have to search hard for a cabover bed one that also has the other features you might want.

Response: Thor, Forest River, Coachman have numerous cabover models. I am sure there are others.

10. It unfortunately may not be recommeded to idle the Sprinter engine an hour or two in order to take advantage of it's large alternator in order to quietly and quickly charge the coach battery bank in noise sensitive drycamping situations where solar won't do it and where the built-in generator may be too load. This idling limitation does not exist, for instance, with the Ford V10.

Response: I don't like idling any engine. Time on an engine is time on an engine. It takes a lot of hours even with a big alternator to properly charge a battery. When off the grid, we use solar(its worked exceptionally well, even in the sun deprived areas of eastern US in the winter)for most of our electrical needs and have an inverter when necessary. Our backup is a diesel generator. We do not use the generator to charge batteries.

11. For what it's worth speaking from experience, the Ford V10 pulling our small Class C has continued to pull strong so far up to and through a 11,300 foot pass in Colorado.

Response: Probably not a problem for a Ford V10 with a small Class C. Every NA engine including the V10 has lost at least 33% of its power, some claim up to 44%, just a fact of nature. In a heavy rig at altitude the loss will be felt.

In most respects it just a matter of what the owner likes and dislikes. We like our Thor/Sprinter.

[Cider]

pnichols wrote:
Here's my comments regarding a Class B+ or Class C RV built on a Sprinter chassis:

1. Coach walls and steps are too low to the ground - how you gonna take them reliably off paved roads?
We have not had any issues with our Forest River 2400R MBS going down gravel roads. Like any RV down a gravel road, you need to pay attention to where you are going and the road conditions. Height has not been an issue.
2. Too tall for their dually track-width in the rear - they look unstable side-to-side.
[COLOR=]If the unit is equipped with antiwar bars, that problem is not an issue. Ours has the Hellwig setup on it and does not have that effect, unless you are crossing uneven drives in / out of parking lots.
3. Difficult to find emergency servicing when something goes wrong a long way from home.
That can be a point of consideration for the MBS setup as "authorized" service locations are not immediately available coast to coast. However, MB does have road service and will transport to nearest authorized service center if it is an issue with the driveline. This is the only thing I consider to be a PITA with the unit.
4. They're not basement-design motorhomes - where's the several smaller outside storage cabinets that are actually tall enough to fit much into (in addition to the single main one that they all have)?
This is true on almost all MBS units with the exception of the 2400R model. We have enough space that we could overload the untold total CC if we are not careful with the full rear compartment.
5. I don't think that the double coach batteries are right under the doorstep - accessible from the outside or inside, rain or shine ... and kept a bit warm from being located just under the floor of the coach in cold weather. (Warm batteries perform better in the winter - which is when you need them most to perform up to their full potential.)
Our batteries are under the entry way steps, so are enclosed.
6. If you want one with a stronger coach structure you must get one without slides. But without slides, they are just too narrow to get around in.
Not sure I could argue this point very well.
7. The commonly available Ford E450 and Chevy 4500 chassis under a motorhome means you can pretty much carry anything you want in them if you have one of those two chassis under a Class B+ or Class C motorhome up to around 28 feet long.
[COLOR=]True - the gas engines models do offer more overall CC than the MBS series do. But then, how much "stuff" do you really need? For our last trip, we carried items we never even used, or thought about using while traveling. Experience will dictate what you really need to have and not have.
8. Diesel is available in whole lot of places but not "everywhere". Gasoline is available in just about every little podunk U.S. town.
I have been running diesel rigs, truck / RV for over 20 years and have never had a problem getting diesel fuel. On the MBS, you do have to be careful what you use as MB does not want you to run anything over B5 biodiesel. Personally, I always use ULSD. There are apps that will show what fuels are available for trip planning purposes.
9. Not a lot of the Sprinter based rigs have a full cabover sleeper bed. You may have to search hard for a cabover bed one that also has the other features you might want.
This is true, but there are many models that do, as is the case with ours. Ours has a weight capacity of 450 pounds and a person 6 foot tall can sleep there. Realistically, this would be for kids, but we use our for storage for bulky, light weight items.
10. It unfortunately may not be recommeded to idle the Sprinter engine an hour or two in order to take advantage of it's large alternator in order to quietly and quickly charge the coach battery bank in noise sensitive drycamping situations where solar won't do it and where the built-in generator may be too load. This idling limitation does not exist, for instance, with the Ford V10.
That's why most class C's have a generator on board. MB does not recommend idling the engine for long periods of time as it is detrimental to the engine.
11. For what it's worth speaking from experience, the Ford V10 pulling our small Class C has continued to pull strong so far up to and through a 11,300 foot pass in Colorado.

We crossed the continental divide 8 times last summer, towing a Jeep
Wrangler - no issues.

This is not meant to be argumentative, just a response as an owner of a FR MBS 2400R with experience using the unit. We are very pleased with the unit as to comfort, appearance, drivability, performance and fuel mileage. Hope this helps in your decision making process.