Need electrical advice

[dshinnick]

We have a 2005 Holiday Rambler Ambassador 40' DP with an outside Progressive Industries surge protector.

When we came back from running around we found the power off. The surge protector displayed an "E7", indicating a "High Frequency" error, whatever that is.

I cycled the 50amp switches on the power pole and the surge protector showed good power, no errors.

I have power on Line 1, but none on Line 2. I pushed the reset button on my inverter, it seemed to come alive but not sure what really happened there.

I reset all circuit breakers and checked all fuses. Nothing obviously wrong there.

I pushed the reset button on the GFCI outlet in the bathroom. It blinks green for half a second, then shuts off.

With my voltmeter I found that there is power coming to the GFCI outlet, but it's kinda weird:

upper right terminal to lower left: 48 volts
upper right to upper left: 120v
upper right to lower right: 48v

Maybe this is normal; I'm not sure.

Sure that it was a defective GFCI, I drove 15 miles to Home Depot, bought the identical model as I currently have, installed it, and have exactly the same situation.

I used my voltmeter to check the power pedestal, all seemed ok, so I removed the surge protector. No change in the situation.

The last weird thing: the GFCI DOES work on generator power! I was completely surprised. It comes on and stays on, and Line 2 comes up just like it's supposed to.

Ok, electric experts. Whaddya think?

Thanks in advance-

dave

[2_many_2]

I have installed several converters, every one was wired directly to a dedicated circuit breaker. I have never seen one that went through a GFI receptacle.

That does not mean it is not OK, just not in my experience.

When you figure this out please post the outcome 🙂

[45Ricochet]

45Ricochet wrote:
What kind of inverter do you have?

:B or should I say 😞
Of course it could your fridge also since you unplugged it.

[dshinnick]

Ah, the adventure continues.

Enroute to the park we stopped for gas. While the pump struggled along, I unplugged the fridge outside, then had my wife turn on the inverter and attempt to activate the GFCI. No go. Shut off immediately.

We got to the park, got plugged in, and.....all is fine. GFCI hasn't shut off in a few hours, and we have full power. So, assuming it stays that way, the only thing that doesn't work correctly is when we're on inverter power. But, last night the GFCI shut off after several hours, so we'll have to see whether it stays on or not.

dave

[CA_Traveler]

My refer heater is not on the GFCI circuit but the ice maker is on the GFCI.

GFCIs are very sensitive and there can be various reasons why it trips sometimes. If after unplugging everything it still trips replace the GFCI as they do fail. You'll either fix the problem or have a spare..

Update typos.

[Tinstar]

Start with that process of elimination to find the problem. Unplug the fridge first and check to see if it throws the breaker. If it does, unplug the element on the water heater. If it does, go to something else (sat dish or whatever). You'll eventually find where the fault is.

I'm guessing the heating element in the fridge. Someone said less than $100 but I replaced mine last time for about $30 and a half hour of my time. I don't think there is anything wrong with the fridge that would cause it to be needing replacement.

[enblethen]

Or it could be water heater 120 volt circuit. Disable it if equipped.

[You_can_t_take_]

dshinnick wrote:
No, I'll do that when we get to our next park in a few hours. Jeez, I hope it ain't the fridge. Not in the mood to dish out $1k for a new one.

We're only talking about the GFCI here and if it's the fridge element it will cost less than $100 and take very little effort to fix.

[45Ricochet]

What kind of inverter do you have?

[dshinnick]

No, I'll do that when we get to our next park in a few hours. Jeez, I hope it ain't the fridge. Not in the mood to dish out $1k for a new one.

[You_can_t_take_]

wolfe10 wrote:
Have you unplugged the refrigerator's 120 VAC cord-- try that (outside access door). If the GFI is tripping because of a problem in the refrigerator, this should identify/eliminate the issue.

If that doesn't cause it to be resettable and stay reset, unplug everything that is plugged into either the GFI or any outlet downstream of it. See if it will stay reset. If not, you have either a wiring problem or if a GFI trips enough, it may not reset.

And, yes, refrigerator 120 VAC heating elements are one of the most common causes of GFI failure.

Have you actually unplugged the refrigerator at the back of the unit??

[dshinnick]

Ah, it just gets better and better....

After we unhooked from power we realized the satellite dish wasn't down. No problem. We turned on the inverter, hit the Reset button on the GFCI, and got something new: it blinked red/green for 3 seconds, went to solid green for 2 seconds, blinked red/green for 3 seconds, then shut off.

That would seem to imply there's a problem inside the coach somewhere, but we're still baffled as to the fact that running on generator all is fine.

dave

[dshinnick]

Weird stuff. When I turned off the generator at bedtime, the power remained on. Got up at around 3am, power still on. Upon waking at 7, power was off (Line 2). Started the generator to make coffee. When we shut off the generator, the power remained on. After staying on for about an hour, it shut off.

Aargh. Just going to ignore it all til we get to our next park in a few hours. I'll report then.

[wa8yxm]

First the explanation of the High Frequency error.. The Power Line Monitor measures the frequency which should be 60Hz. Plus or minus very little.. Now the Standards folks recently increased that "Very little" to a slightly larger number.. It may be the incoming power was over the Unit's preset limit.

IT can also happen that there was a bad connection (Perhaps another RVer connecting or disconnecting without turning off the breaker) and the arcing was picked up by the device and read as high frequency. In fact that is highly likely.


Now the strange voltages.. Normal don't worry about them.

What happens is this: You have 3 wires lying parallel to each other, You have hundresds of feet of this (Romex) cable in the RV Also the power cord and any flexible cords.. Well the way the wires are layed (Neutral/Ground/Hot) they form a capacitive voltage divider. (electronics term)

This means that thee ground wire, in theory is sitting there at 60 volts.. Now if you are plugged into shore power and running on shore power the neutral and ground SHOULD be bonded at either the park box or the park main service panel, but often this is far away..

But from your description I suspect the Power Montor (Surge guard) had you cut off so you were running on your INVERTER and bonding of neutral and ground is either not done or optional (Depending on the inverter) On mine it's optional (And set to bond when inverting).

I notice this when I'm running on Generator.. It too is not bonded.

If you ARE running on shore power... Then it indicates a bad connection to ground on the shore side of the RV (cord, outlet box, or elsewhere in the park). OR.. It can also indicate that you are some distance from two differnet grounds.

(Most parks I see the outlet is grounded at the box, but there is no ground wire running back to the service box.. Where there is a second ground.. You can have quite a difference in potential between those two spots.. the NEUTRAL is bonded at the main Service box (meter) not at your RV and this can cause strange readings).

[enblethen]

Refer going to ground or the 120 volt system for water heater if equipped.
Shut off 120 volt switch for water heater. Try again