Strange Electrical Problem with water!!!!

[gsf35099]

Okay gang, I’ve got a good one (issue) and looking for input.

Let’s see how good we all really are..

Sorry to be lengthy, but I figured the more details the better.
This is on my 05 Daman that is on a Freightliner XC chassis.

While driving in rain, something got/gets wet under the front hood and caused/causes the PowerGear pump to kick on and run. Appears to be activated by large solenoid mounted to PG motor. Pump will continue to run until I pull over and turn off engine ignition and restart. Then starts again normally in a very short time period <10 min of driving.

This happened before and we stopped for the night and then took of the next day with no rain and ran fine. Didn’t really think about it again because we haven’t driven in much rain.
This time I figured I would let the darn thing run until the motor burned up or as long as I could because I needed to stay with a friend in front of me and we were on a time schedule. Well, 20 min of the pump running and BAM no more pump noise, but also NO windshield wipers!! Drove the next 15 minutes passing 4 state troopers, really couldn’t see them (LOL) and finally found a truck stop. Of course I had 4 friends in the RV with me & we were trying to scream home from Dickson, TN to Dallas, TX.

Started troubleshooting in the rain sitting at the pump. Luckily no trucker behind me..

PG motor, reservoir, & wires to motor were hot. Not melted, but hot. Could smell something had burned up. I quickly diagnosed the no wipers were due to the fact the BCC (compartment for all 12 volt stuff in front of rig, i.e. sig lighter, seat, wipers, etc.), realized there was no power to the large board in the BCC compartment. Kept running around while friends just kept asking if there was anything they could do, but not knowing anything about the RV just made them feel a little uncomfortable.

I recalled noticing while trying to find a place to stop my GPS plugged into 12 outlet would have power, then none and kept doing this a couple time. After some looking, pulling on wires, and scratching my head, I went to my main battery disconnect location and could hear it cycling. That got me thinking there was something stopping it from resetting or allowing it to stay engaged. Went back to the wire on PG motor and the ground wire was still pretty hot and didn’t seem to be cooling down. Figured, what the heck, disconnected the ground from solenoid to PG motor and BAM!!! All 12 was back to front area. YEAH!!! Back on road!!!

Before I took off I noticed the Information panel freaking out (no engine data, no trans data, flashing). Kind of figured that would happen because the first time I tried to troubleshoot (~1 ½ years ago) and pulled the wires from the PG solenoid the panel flipped out them but I could not drive because it didn’t know where the jacks were. This time, I was able to go because I pulled power from the PG control panel.

Anyway, after pulling back out I noticed the tack, speedometer, oil, temp, & voltage gauges were not working. Fuel gauge was okay. Since I had the GPS, I just used that to keep rolling. No Eng brake & cruise was a bummer.

Here is the weird part, after several hours and less rain the gauges started to come back on. On-off-on-off then finally stayed on for a while. Thought it was just something like a connector drying out, but over the next 16 hours I noticed any time I turned the engine off the gauges & information panel have nothing & errors. Then will come on, also while driving, bumps seemed to make the darn thing flicker on and off as well. Sometimes I was good for hours, other times only for minutes.

Made it home safely!!! The important part..

I plan to test the PG solenoid and motor and replace what is burned up to hopefully get everything connected back up to normal (only thing disconnected now is the ground to the PG motor, but I think that has something to do with the information panel as well). Then I’m going to gently spray with a shower type and see if I can find the location that is causing the issue when wet. It’s not a great deal of water getting in there, just spray from the tires.

Feel free to throughout any advice, I know I'm going to find the root cause and fix it. No way am I taking this to anyone that would not have a clue including Freightliner or an RV place.

Thanks,
Kaven

[gsf35099]

Hello gang, I wanted to make sure I came back and told root cause to help anyone else that might run into this problem.

I found that my BCC compartment (below driver in front of tire) that is supposed to be water tight, had a small 1" square corner that had lost the insulation causing water to gently get in the compartment causing several issues. The hole was not easy to see. The only way was to crawl under and look up at the box. It was not something that could be seen from the inside. Looking from inside, everything looked tight and sealed.

I had another problem where the Eng & Trans ECU where not getting signals causing the information panel to have erros. It was a connector in the same compartment and very possible that was the connector getting moisture causing the Power Gear solenoid to close and allowing the motor to run. Maybe not, but water getting in that compartment, even though a very small amount, can cause some strange issues as the PG tech told me and I found out first hand.

thanks,

[gsf35099]

JimM68 wrote:
The power gear solenoid controls the hydraulic pump, which sucks a bunch of power. Enough to overload your alternator and deplete yoyur battery and reduce your voltage to the point where lots of stuff begins being weird.

The power gear system has a main solenoid which switches on the pump, and a number of secondary solenoids for the front, right rear, and left rear jacks.
It takes the main plus one of the others to actually move the jacks.

This whole system should be interlocked so it never ever energizes when the coach is moving.

If the powergear pump is running while driving down the road, that's the first place I'd look. Starting with the PG control panel and main box.

Thanks, Jim.
I will start there. The PG guys even said that just a small amount of condensation can cause problems. I think the PG control system is in the BCC compartment just below the driver in front of the tire.

[JimM68]

The power gear solenoid controls the hydraulic pump, which sucks a bunch of power. Enough to overload your alternator and deplete yoyur battery and reduce your voltage to the point where lots of stuff begins being weird.

The power gear system has a main solenoid which switches on the pump, and a number of secondary solenoids for the front, right rear, and left rear jacks.
It takes the main plus one of the others to actually move the jacks.

This whole system should be interlocked so it never ever energizes when the coach is moving.

If the powergear pump is running while driving down the road, that's the first place I'd look. Starting with the PG control panel and main box.

[gsf35099]

imadtchmn wrote:
Glad you did make it a long detailed story. From what I can decipher from your story, it sounds like a bad ground, expecially since the ground you took off was hot. This indicates that that particular ground is being used for more than what it was designed for and another ground, probably bigger, is not grounding properly. Follow your ground wires and you'll locate a rusted or loose ground wire.

Thanks, I will check wires as I go and see what I can find. It really is an odd problem.
Even after the rig set overnight dry in the driveway, as soon as I started it up the information panel was not working (showing errors). I was just moving the RV back to its storage position in the driveway and as soon as I moved & hit the edge of the driveway concrete, the information panel came on along with the gauges. There must be a connector having problems. It will have to wait until this weekend to be looked at since I'm now in NY on business travel. 😉

[wa8yxm]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Go to a Radio Shack and get some of the electronic cleaner that displaces moisture. Then, when you have the problem you can spray it on one area at a time to isolate the problem. I am guessing that it is at one of the major electrical connectors.

Radio Shack.. That (Displacing water, or rather Water Displacement) is what the WD in WD-40 stands for.

Yup, that is what it was designed for.

The problem: Your Power gear system has 3 main modules not counting the jacks, One is the sensor pod, I Strongly suspect this has some control devices in it too.. You need to locate it,, Alas, I have no idea where to look.

[imadtchmn]

Glad you did make it a long detailed story. From what I can decipher from your story, it sounds like a bad ground, expecially since the ground you took off was hot. This indicates that that particular ground is being used for more than what it was designed for and another ground, probably bigger, is not grounding properly. Follow your ground wires and you'll locate a rusted or loose ground wire.

[gsf35099]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Go to a Radio Shack and get some of the electronic cleaner that displaces moisture. Then, when you have the problem you can spray it on one area at a time to isolate the problem. I am guessing that it is at one of the major electrical connectors.

thanks, I will do that to help clear it up once I find the problem area. I plan to spray that sucker down with FlexAll to seal it up and stop the moisture once I do find the spot. 🙂

[rgatijnet1]

Go to a Radio Shack and get some of the electronic cleaner that displaces moisture. Then, when you have the problem you can spray it on one area at a time to isolate the problem. I am guessing that it is at one of the major electrical connectors.