Tough Choice: Jayco Greyhawk 2015 vs. 2016

[Jopops]

Hey Gang,

Okay so I'm looking for some collective wisdom here. Briefly, I was going to buy a 2015 29MV, however when I got close to talking money it sold. In rolled a 2016 - with all the new bells and whistles. In my mind, the highlights were the 6 speed Torqshift on the 2016 E450 chassis and the fiberglass roof.

My test drive of the 2016 revealed a strong vibration around 60mph. Dealer sent the unit to Ford. Ford sent the driveshaft to a place that specializes in such things. Ford got the driveshaft back today - 2 of the three sections were NOT balanced at all. They are now though. So - you would think we're good to go right?

Nope - Ford put it all back together and the vibration is still there at the same mph. Now they are trying to see if its a angle issue or something else. Lots of people working on this unit now. On top of that, the other 2016 29MV on the dealer's lot exhibits the exact same problem at 60 mph.

I wonder what Jayco's chassis extender is doing?

SO - to make it murkier; the buyer for the 2015 bailed. The dealer has graciously allowed me to 'hold' both the 2015 and the 2016 pending whatever Ford finds.

Given all this - would you guys go w/ the 2015 and the TPO roof and 5 speed Torqshift? Also, the 2015 has Bigfoot Levelers, the 2016 has Equalizer. Or wait it out and see how the 2016 fares at Ford? Or would you even care at that point given all the work thats been done on the 2016 already?

FWIW, the DW likes the interior on the 2015 more. Price savings is around ~$1500. Added bonus, the 2015 has ~165 pounds more cargo capacity ringing in at 2089 pounds of OCCC.

Very confused - but I'm almost leaning towards the 2015 now. For all I know the 6 speed transmission in the 2016 changed the undercarriage geometry somehow. Who knows? Not sure about the roof though.

Help ?!

[Jopops]

What do you have to have done? They told me to clean it once a year. And it is stored under cover (but not inside ). Obviously I have to inspect my seals, but I'm thrilled to have that one piece cap!

[j-d]

Congratulations!

Jopopsy wrote:
...DW liked the interior of the unit more...

That, my friend, is the issue that trumps ALL others. With that quote, you made the right choice.

You'll see your warranty requires periodic inspections and re-sealings to prevent leaks. As the attorneys put it; "In this matter, fail not!" I believe Jayco improved their roofing installation design since ours. We have to have ours worked annually and it's not cheap. NOT doing it is way too expensive!

[Jopops]

I went with the 2015. Dealer sweetened the pot a bit for me, and DW liked the interior of the unit more.

[Snowman9000]

The new ratios in the 6 speed look great. Combine that with a taller rear end and the Ford Class C's should close the MPG gap with the Chevys. Plus the downshifting gripes should not be as plentiful because the RPMs will not go up as much as before.

Like on my Chevy, the 6 to 5 downshift at around 65 only takes the revs from 2000 to 2500 or so. Barely perceptible. I expect the new Ford to be like that.

[Snowman9000]

pnichols wrote:


By the way as I understand it, the older 5-speed TorqShift transmission (introduced in 2005 in the E-Series) is actually 6 speeds. One of the 5 speeds has two different ratios for it that are selected only "internally" by the computer depending upon various parameters.

The 5R110 has two different 4th gear ratios available, but only one is used in any given condition. It uses an underdrive 4th when cold. There is never an occasion when it shifts through 6 speeds. So it's a 5 speed, not a 6 speed.

[carringb]

In the F-series, Ford paired the 6R140 with taller rear end ratios, compared to what was offered with the 5R110. The lower 1st and slightly lower 2nd gear allow this, and the 5th gear is a better pulling overdrive compared to top gear in the 5R110. I haven't if there's a change on the rear axle ratio on the new E-series.

[pnichols]

Bryan, thanks for those ratios. I assume that those tranny ratio differences would be the same with the higher powered 3-valve V10 .... or did/does Ford install adjusted 5R110 and 6R140 ratios depending upon whether an F-Series (3-valve V10) or an E-Series (2-valve V10) was getting the transmission?

From an 5R110 versus 6R140 in a motorhome perspective, I notice that the differential ratio variation between an E350 and an E450 brings the 5R110 ratio in an older E450 very close to the changed ratios of an 6R140 transmission in either a newer E350 or a newer E450.

FWIW, I'm sure glad I went for the E450 way back when even though our 24 footer only needed an E350. The Koni FSD shocks I recently had installed in the rear have delivered the goods .... the sharp jolts from highway cracks and potholes have been partially defanged back in the rear in spite of the E450's leaf springs. That finally just about - after 9 years of owning the rig - gives us all the advantages of an overkill chassis without the ride compromising disadvantage.

[carringb]

pnichols wrote:

I wonder if the newer 6 speed TorqShifts don't merely make this 6th speed actually used all the time and also available manually by the driver via the gearshift?

The ratios are different, and all 6 gears are available for use. The two "4th" gears in the 5R110 were so close together it didn't make sense to make them both available at the same time. Also the 6R140 does have double overdrive. And generally better ratios all around.

6R140 Gear Ratios:
First - 3.97
Second - 2.32
Third - 1.52
Fourth - 1.15
Fifth - 0.86
Sixth - 0.67

5R110 Gear Ratios:
First - 3.11
Second - 2.22
Third - 1.55
Cold temp 4th - 1.10
Primary 4th - 1.00
Fifth - 0.71:1

[Jopops]

Yep, that's what my dealer told me. 7 bad ones on the road, and they got 2 of them. They are none to happy about it too.

I DO believe the gearshift on the dash is different on the 2016 E450s. That's the thing that tipped me off that something might have changed.

[j-d]

Jopopsy wrote:
I know because MORyde told them there are 6 more just like it.

That's the company that seems to do most of the chassis stretching. I was surprised to see that ours was another company.
Six more...? I wonder if some jigs slipped and they all got their stretch welded in crooked.

[Jopops]

I know because MORyde told them there are 6 more just like it.

[pnichols]

How do you/they/anyone know that Ford didn't build it with a crooked frame? It probably has been known to happen .... no manufacturing process is perfect.

By the way as I understand it, the older 5-speed TorqShift transmission (introduced in 2005 in the E-Series) is actually 6 speeds. One of the 5 speeds has two different ratios for it that are selected only "internally" by the computer depending upon various parameters.

I wonder if the newer 6 speed TorqShifts don't merely make this 6th speed actually used all the time and also available manually by the driver via the gearshift?

[Jopops]

Yep - thanks Mich. I hit that link up as soon as things started to change.

[Mich_F]

Clicky for link