Violently Shaking

[nsaellis]

My father inlaw got his 1997 holiday rambler endeavor out to get it ready for football season. It drove fine to the gas station but on the way back to my house it would not pickup speed until he was on a flat surface then when he finally got up to 65 MPH he tried applying a the brake the pedal went to floor and then whole RV started to shack violently. Once back he went to check the wheels the hubcap was burning hot on he drivers side.

[Argosy24]

You can reiterate anything you want, it doesn't make it right or the normally accepted practice in the industry. If anyone left a vehicle with a brake problem after you told them you were starting at the pedal and inspecting every component in the system I'd be amazed, and say they had a lot more money than sense.

But as long as you insist I just have to ask. When you inspect items such as the master cylinder, calipers, brake cylinders, what do you look at? They need to be disassembled to assess condition. If you didn't find defects then what did you do? Reuse 16 year old rubber seals which left you with even more liability than before you tore it apart, or rebuild? Rubber flex lines same question, would you certify a 16 year old rubber line was good or simply replace it?

That's why what you say makes no sense to me. You can't look at most items from the outside and determine if they have failed or soon will fail. If you tear them apart standard practice says they should be rebuilt. If you do that purchasing rebuilt is a smarter choice because of the knowledge and tools required AND the liability shifts to the rebuilder.

None of what you're saying makes any sense if your concern is liability due to future component failure. But you're going to triple the bill and I really question what will be done to justify the expense.

[randallb]

Raist,
I am laying out the reality of what occurs in the auto/truck repair industry as to liability. Insurance companies look to minimize losses and the courts determine liability by comparing who made a profit and the ignorance of the consumer on the subject. The customer could be a very competent mechanic but he paid some one to do the repair and the outcome caused a death or injury. As much of the financial responsibility as possible will be laid at the feet of the repair facility and its owner.
When a shop does a repair they assume a large liability. Why should a repair facility do a requested repair or improper repair that places them an even riskier situation? It is one thing to be accused of inspecting a part and making a decision to reuse it. Is is a very different situation to be accused of not inspecting a part, The judge may give you a break if you inspected it and failure occurred. You have a legal argument. You are going to be dead meat if you never inspected the failed part. Especially when brakes are concerned.
If the consumer denies a requested repair then the liability shifts because a repair facility does not have the authority to deny the consumer use of a dangerous vehicle. In some states the repair owner is restricted from telling the consumer how dangerous his decision is. This is because so many facilities use scare tactics to sell repairs.
Randy

[Raist11]

randallb wrote:
Raist,
Was it a caliper that hung or a brake booster that is going south and keeping pressure on the master cylinder? Was it a flex hose or was it the linkage from the brake pedal to the booster sticking? Did the master cylinder bypass or did the fluid boil causing the pedal to go to the floor? It could be both. In my shop because of liability I would start at the brake pedal and work my way out. Everything would come off to be inspected or replaced. It is a 16 year old brake system and my insurance company and I are not going to pay for someone's life time care to save an RV owner money. It will get fixed correctly, which is what I determine to be wrong after a thorough inspection, or not at all. It is not cheap to remove these items for inspection but it is the only way to do the job correctly.
Randy

And I did say, if he can't, then have a mechanic inspect the brake system for the problems. My point is that you don't replace the whole system when having a problem. One poster's comment implied that rather than determining the problem just replace the whole system because it's old. That's not what you're agreeing with, is it??

[randallb]

Argosy,
I will reiterate. The RV is 16 years old and as a former repair shop owner if a customer came in to my shop with this story I would tell them how I am going to approach their repair. If they do not like my approach they are welcome to go elsewhere and will be advised to if they think I should repair it their way. The reason for this is very simple. If, and this is a BIG and very possible if, there is an accident related to brake failure the moment the customer says I just had them repaired he is absolved of all responsibility. Who do you think then becomes the care taker of the individuals injured in this accident.
Randy

[Argosy24]

randallb wrote:
It is not cheap to remove these items for inspection but it is the only way to do the job correctly.

It's well into August, the motor home is coming out for football. Sounds like it's major purpose is tail gating. So instead of disassembling the brake system piece by piece to "inspect" it why not use some common sense and ask a few questions about usage?

If it gets a few hundred miles over a couple of months a year a real good place to start is sticking calipers, not linkages which very seldom fail, are never lubed, and protected inside the vehicle.

Almost always under such circumstances calipers stick because of corrosion. You can confirm or eliminate a whole bunch of what you want to tear apart by checking how many hubs are hot, common sense is a big part of repair. Check the OBVIOUS, repair what is necessary, check the operation, and move on.

[dodgerdog]

check the wheel bearings also while your checking the brakes they need to be serviced regularly....


Mike C.

[randallb]

Raist,
Was it a caliper that hung or a brake booster that is going south and keeping pressure on the master cylinder? Was it a flex hose or was it the linkage from the brake pedal to the booster sticking? Did the master cylinder bypass or did the fluid boil causing the pedal to go to the floor? It could be both. In my shop because of liability I would start at the brake pedal and work my way out. Everything would come off to be inspected or replaced. It is a 16 year old brake system and my insurance company and I are not going to pay for someone's life time care to save an RV owner money. It will get fixed correctly, which is what I determine to be wrong after a thorough inspection, or not at all. It is not cheap to remove these items for inspection but it is the only way to do the job correctly.
Randy

[Raist11]

Beware of the knee jerk reactions to a problem. Obviously there is a brake problem. If you have the ability (or get a mechanic), check over the brake system and find where your problems are. But don't spend money on a complete new brake system, that's just silly. As many have already said, it's probably a seized caliper or something on the wheel that was hot. This can happen when a vehicle sits for long periods (and sometimes not just then).

But don't replace the whole system. By that logic you should replace the whole motorhome (better safe than sorry, right?)

[Nick-B]

Let's see . . .
16 year chassis and the brake pedal goes to he floor.
There is only one solution.
Completed brake system rebuild.
Master Cylinder; fluid flush; calipers & pads; hoses. Rotors if overheated or badly scored.
Just do it.

[V10guy]

Probably a warped rotor now too? Its scary how hot they can get...

[RayChez]

You could also have a frozen wheel bearing causing all that heat. Has to be one of the two: caliper or bearings.

[TucsonJim]

x3. Hung caliper explains this one completely.

[SAR_Tracker]

Executive wrote:
Pull the wheel and check for a hung caliper....Dennis

x2... stuck brakes, or warped rotor.

[Executive45]

Pull the wheel and check for a hung caliper....Dennis