Why to Go to Class A from 5th Wheel Part 2

[JCGibson]

I want to add more information from my original post I had. We have camped for about 15 years. We have gone from tenting to popup to travel trailer toy hauler to 5th Wheel to 5th Wheel toyhauler to our current 37' 5th Wheel which is very nice.

My wife and I are in our 40s and finally empty nesters. The wife is a school teacher and I am mostly retired (from USAF) and now just watch my grandson when needed. Summers are open for us to do our traveling with a little weekend stuff in the spring and fall.

Our budget, if we went to a Class A, is about $110K. That is the combined amount of our 2011 Dodge 3500 Dually and our Bay Hill 295RL 5th Wheel.

I know people say to go with a used DP, but for what I have seen for that amount they are about 2009 or older and the interiors are pretty dated in our opinion. So we would want to go with a new or 1-2 year old gasser. Don't want to go longer than 35'.

Also want something comparable to what our 5er is. It has auto leveling, fireplace, dual ducted AC, residential size microwave, LED lighting throughout, 4 door fridge/freezer, central vac, self closing kitchen drawers, real hardwood cabinets, over 140 CF exterior storage, and solid surface countertops.

The only ones I have seen within our price range that is similar in features to our 5er are 2015 Forest River Georgetown 335DS, 2015 Fleetwood Rv Bounder 33C, or 2015 Tiffin Motorhomes Allegro 31 SA. Are there any others?

Now, I have heard advantages of Class As, but want clarification.

How is the ride better (gasser only)? Our dually has rear air bags and the 5er hitch also has air bag setup so my ride is pretty descent.

How is the setup/take down quicker? With the auto leveling, I can be parked, plugged in, slides out, and ready to camp in 5 or so minutes.

Someone said your vacation starts when setup at a site with the 5er, but with Class A it begins when you turn the key. How is this different?

The only real advantages I can see with a Class A is being able to tow one of our sports cars and not having to stay at a hotel/rental. Also having quicker pit stops or not having to stop at all for the passengers.

Are there other things that are really an advantages and would be worth making the change?

With our experience with the 5th Wheels, we are unsure if going to Class A is a reasonable thing to do given our wants.

[msturtz]

JCGibson wrote:
Another couple questions I would like to ask, how accessible is the engine on these? Is it possible for me to do all the regular drive train maintenance on a DP or gasser? I usually do most everything required on my Dodge (especially since it is out of warranty) and our 5er (at least I have the previous ones).

In theory it is possible. Not easy but possible. Initially I wanted to stay away from a DP for that reason. However now there are YouTube videos on exactly how to do the work. I even saw a video on how to do your own maintenance on a diesel generator! BTW DP units have commercial engines and transmissions and have much longer service intervals vs. gas rigs or even diesel pickups.

[JCGibson]

msmith1199 wrote:


Although this isn't a bad idea, if you are going to look for an older high end DP, just make sure you have somebody who knows what they are doing inspect it closely for any hidden damage from water or things of that nature.

What areas are prone to water damage or other type of damage? Do you mean from the roof? I am pretty mechanically inclined and have pretty good knowledge of 5ers and my Cummins Diesel in the Dodge so isn't this something I can inspect?

[JCGibson]

Another couple questions I would like to ask, how accessible is the engine on these? Is it possible for me to do all the regular drive train maintenance on a DP or gasser? I usually do most everything required on my Dodge (especially since it is out of warranty) and our 5er (at least I have the previous ones).

[msturtz]

dahkota wrote:

msturtz wrote:


I was the one that posted about the gas MH. We needed to be able to tow our Tahoe to fit all 5 - 6 people and gear in for side trips. No gas MH can do that except a very few Class C units. But with the Class C units you have major issues with GVWR and GAWR. Our unit had ~1800# of gross CCC not including water! Add water, additional fuel, people and now you are stuck with closer to ~500# of payload. You need to be very careful not to overload any part of the unit or poor handling can result.

I'd be surprised if you could find a gas C that could tow that. We looked at Super Cs first - diesel - and they had the capacity (10K lbs.) But they were either too long or poorly constructed.

There really isn't the perfect RV out there.

Technically Ford E-450s can tow up to 7500# (GCWR of 22,000) however most manufacturers only put a 5,000# hitch because of the frame rail extensions. However you can only really flat tow because you can't put 750# tongue weight on the rear. A Thor Palazzo has a 10K hitch and can tow up to 10K as long as you don't exceed your GCWR of 30,000. Realistically, you can only tow about 7,500# due to the GCWR issues.

[msmith1199]

JCGibson wrote:

Gannet wrote:
You have a really nice 5er. Going to a gas Class A is a downgrade imo. A 35' MH will have much les usable interior room than your 37' 5er.

What I would recommend would be to spend $100k on a nice older high-end DP and then spend $10k on having the interior redecorated. That would be an upgrade you would enjoy imo.

That is an idea I didn't think of. We have remodeled a few homes and I guess that would be similar. Most of the outsides of the DPs in our price range are nice and generally have fairly low miles so I wouldn't have to put a lot of funds into the drive train hopefully.

Although this isn't a bad idea, if you are going to look for an older high end DP, just make sure you have somebody who knows what they are doing inspect it closely for any hidden damage from water or things of that nature.

[JCGibson]

Gannet wrote:
You have a really nice 5er. Going to a gas Class A is a downgrade imo. A 35' MH will have much les usable interior room than your 37' 5er.

What I would recommend would be to spend $100k on a nice older high-end DP and then spend $10k on having the interior redecorated. That would be an upgrade you would enjoy imo.

That is an idea I didn't think of. We have remodeled a few homes and I guess that would be similar. Most of the outsides of the DPs in our price range are nice and generally have fairly low miles so I wouldn't have to put a lot of funds into the drive train hopefully.

[Gannet]

You have a really nice 5er. Going to a gas Class A is a downgrade imo. A 35' MH will have much les usable interior room than your 37' 5er.

What I would recommend would be to spend $100k on a nice older high-end DP and then spend $10k on having the interior redecorated. That would be an upgrade you would enjoy imo.

[dahkota]

msturtz wrote:


I was the one that posted about the gas MH. We needed to be able to tow our Tahoe to fit all 5 - 6 people and gear in for side trips. No gas MH can do that except a very few Class C units. But with the Class C units you have major issues with GVWR and GAWR. Our unit had ~1800# of gross CCC not including water! Add water, additional fuel, people and now you are stuck with closer to ~500# of payload. You need to be very careful not to overload any part of the unit or poor handling can result.

I'd be surprised if you could find a gas C that could tow that. We looked at Super Cs first - diesel - and they had the capacity (10K lbs.) But they were either too long or poorly constructed.

There really isn't the perfect RV out there.

[msturtz]

dahkota wrote:
We went from a diesel F250 pulling a trailer to a Bounder 33C pulling a jeep.

The road and engine noise is similar is both. When one is going uphill and the engine downshifts, either is pretty loud. The F250 had more power, but it wasn't pulling as much weight. The F250 got better mileage, but the fuel was more expensive. And, with the Jeep, we get better mileage and much easier parking once we get where we are going.

We went to a class A because it was more convenient. We can unhook the toad any time we want and go looking around an area without having to find a campground. Unless one finds a convenient place that allows one to leave an unhooked tt/5er, it can't be done. We are also a couple feet shorter when hooked up but, if necessary, we can unhook to become shorter which makes it much easier to get around. We often stay in areas where the recommendation is nothing longer than 35'. Sometimes there just isn't room to maneuver 54' but there is to maneuver 34'.

One poster mentioned not enough payload. In our 33C, we have 3500 lbs of payload. We haven't even come close to that yet and we full time.

It was also mentioned that the gas engines are noisy but we haven't really seen that - we previously had a diesel so that may be why. We looked at DPs but one of the things I found really annoying was the loud generator. They sit up front and, when one is parked and using the generator, make conversation difficult. The generator in a gas A is in the rear - we can close the bedroom door and don't hear it hardly at all.

I'm not sure how passengers in a truck would easily go to the bathroom while moving, unless you keep them in the 5er? But, even with a class A, you have to pull over if the driver has to go.

We have a little less storage inside our Class A than we did in our tt (there is no cabinet big enough to hold my crock pot and giant frying pan). But, we have about 4X the storage outside, and it is much easier to get to. Instead of 2 doors we now have 8. We also have a lot more room for batteries for our solar power system.

The front windshield is nice - we can pull into a site with a nice view in the back (such as Bahia Honda) or back into a site with a nice view in front. With a tt/5er, one doesn't have a choice. But, the front windshield does make the rig hotter when driving into the sun. The a/c and fans do an adequate job keeping up on really hot drives.

As for setting up: we can pull over in a fairly flat spot, turn on the generator to watch a little tv or use the microwave, eat, sleep, whatever, without having to level, move the slides out, hook up, or leave the rv at all. And we have done just that during huge downpours or just because we felt like it.

Class A motorhomes are more centered around moving and less around stopping. TTs/5ers are better when stopping and less when moving. It really depends on how you travel. Neither is better than the other but you will find one will be better for you.

I was the one that posted about the gas MH. We needed to be able to tow our Tahoe to fit all 5 - 6 people and gear in for side trips. No gas MH can do that except a very few Class C units. But with the Class C units you have major issues with GVWR and GAWR. Our unit had ~1800# of gross CCC not including water! Add water, additional fuel, people and now you are stuck with closer to ~500# of payload. You need to be very careful not to overload any part of the unit or poor handling can result.

[msturtz]

bhivetravels wrote:

JCGibson wrote:

bhivetravels wrote:
Coffee on the road; using the bathroom while traveling; pets with us in their home; easy access to everything; more storage; as mentioned easy setup (can't tell you the number of times I setup in bad weather from the driver's seat; making sandwiches; great views; warm/cool while driving same when setting up; grandkids love it; driving is cool; 12 volt/120 volt system assures us of comfort no matter where we are; Walmart parking with ease; my toad gets great mileage while traveling around seeing the sights when camped.

Where is there more storage, inside or out? I have lots of cabinets and a huge basement storage area. For passengers, going to the bathroom is easy, but still have to stop if it's the driver. We have easy setup, but I agree being out in bad weather isn't that fun. We make sandwiches ahead of time for our travel day and have them in the rear of the cab along with drinks.

Have you gotten gas at Walmart's Murphy USA stations (used them because of 10 cent savings with their gas card--why not save on fuel if you can so have more for other stuff?)? This last summer we went to several and I find it would have been harder for some longer Class A's to do. We are able to unhook and fill up the truck if needed.

Underneath storage is so convenient. All the stuff we don't use goes underneath, plus much more. I had difficulty storing some of the boxes and other storage items inside the trailer and truck. In the truck it was exposed to the elements, other people could get to it. Underneath it's locked away and heated. Sure we can make sandwiches ahead of time, we used to do that. But the comfort of the use of the refrigerator, microwave, coffeemaker is just what the doctor ordered -- for us. Remember its all about the space you need + the layout + the setup/takedown that work for you. This works for us.

X2 MH vs tow able no contest in that area. I even added a 100 gallon fuel tank and canopy to my truck and with the twins it was hopeless. The trips in the MH have been night and day. 75% less futzing with tow equipment, generator, getting leveled. In the MH it is night and day. If my wife needs to change a diaper she can do while we are driving. Our daughter can watch TV while driving. She can get pop and snacks out of the fridge or cupboards.

[dahkota]

We went from a diesel F250 pulling a trailer to a Bounder 33C pulling a jeep.

The road and engine noise is similar is both. When one is going uphill and the engine downshifts, either is pretty loud. The F250 had more power, but it wasn't pulling as much weight. The F250 got better mileage, but the fuel was more expensive. And, with the Jeep, we get better mileage and much easier parking once we get where we are going.

We went to a class A because it was more convenient. We can unhook the toad any time we want and go looking around an area without having to find a campground. Unless one finds a convenient place that allows one to leave an unhooked tt/5er, it can't be done. We are also a couple feet shorter when hooked up but, if necessary, we can unhook to become shorter which makes it much easier to get around. We often stay in areas where the recommendation is nothing longer than 35'. Sometimes there just isn't room to maneuver 54' but there is to maneuver 34'.

One poster mentioned not enough payload. In our 33C, we have 3500 lbs of payload. We haven't even come close to that yet and we full time.

It was also mentioned that the gas engines are noisy but we haven't really seen that - we previously had a diesel so that may be why. We looked at DPs but one of the things I found really annoying was the loud generator. They sit up front and, when one is parked and using the generator, make conversation difficult. The generator in a gas A is in the rear - we can close the bedroom door and don't hear it hardly at all.

I'm not sure how passengers in a truck would easily go to the bathroom while moving, unless you keep them in the 5er? But, even with a class A, you have to pull over if the driver has to go.

We have a little less storage inside our Class A than we did in our tt (there is no cabinet big enough to hold my crock pot and giant frying pan). But, we have about 4X the storage outside, and it is much easier to get to. Instead of 2 doors we now have 8. We also have a lot more room for batteries for our solar power system.

The front windshield is nice - we can pull into a site with a nice view in the back (such as Bahia Honda) or back into a site with a nice view in front. With a tt/5er, one doesn't have a choice. But, the front windshield does make the rig hotter when driving into the sun. The a/c and fans do an adequate job keeping up on really hot drives.

As for setting up: we can pull over in a fairly flat spot, turn on the generator to watch a little tv or use the microwave, eat, sleep, whatever, without having to level, move the slides out, hook up, or leave the rv at all. And we have done just that during huge downpours or just because we felt like it.

Class A motorhomes are more centered around moving and less around stopping. TTs/5ers are better when stopping and less when moving. It really depends on how you travel. Neither is better than the other but you will find one will be better for you.

[msmith1199]

JCGibson wrote:

korbe wrote:
If I didn't use my truck at all except for pulling the 5er, I would consider a Class A also.......But I use my truck all the time.

I consider vehicle engines sitting idle not a good use of my money.

This is another reason for NOT getting a class A. I use my truck a lot for my wood working hobby. A definite plus.

If I had the need for a one ton diesel truck so I was going to have it anyway regardless of the type of RV I had, then no question I would have went with a 5th wheel.

[JCGibson]

holstein13 wrote:

korbe wrote:
If I didn't use my truck at all except for pulling the 5er, I would consider a Class A also.......But I use my truck all the time.

I consider vehicle engines sitting idle not a good use of my money.

I pull my 2012 4 x 4 F150 super crew cab behind me. It's a great toad.

Do you have a DP or gasser? Most gassers, which is in our budget, don't have that towing capacity.

[JCGibson]

bhivetravels wrote:


Underneath storage is so convenient. All the stuff we don't use goes underneath, plus much more. I had difficulty storing some of the boxes and other storage items inside the trailer and truck. In the truck it was exposed to the elements, other people could get to it. Underneath it's locked away and heated. Sure we can make sandwiches ahead of time, we used to do that. But the comfort of the use of the refrigerator, microwave, coffeemaker is just what the doctor ordered -- for us. Remember its all about the space you need + the layout + the setup/takedown that work for you. This works for us.

Thanks for the info. Not trying to say yours isn't good. Just trying to find the rationale for myself and the wife if we will eventually go to a Class A. Thanks again.

[holstein13]

korbe wrote:
If I didn't use my truck at all except for pulling the 5er, I would consider a Class A also.......But I use my truck all the time.

I consider vehicle engines sitting idle not a good use of my money.

I pull my 2012 4 x 4 F150 super crew cab behind me. It's a great toad.