Dropping TV channels

[Veebyes]

Here is a frustrating one. Have 2 TVs. Over the air only. No satellite. Yes set for over the air at the ant/cable button. We have a Jack ant.

Upon arriving in a new area each TV, 2 of them, is scanned for available channels. The crazy thing is that one TV will drop channels when the other is turned on. The one losing the channels is the one furthest from the antenna after the splitter to feed each one.

It is almost like a water pressure system where the water will go to the closest tap from the supply the easiest if both are on.

Any techie with an idea?

[Edd505]

Gdetrailer the antennas a King wish it was the Wingard. Pulled it all apart today and eliminated the basement connection (1 splitter gone) I found the booster had 4 connections, TV1 on front,antenna, TV2 & cable on the back side. Opened all cable connections and found 3 colors coax; gray/OTA, white/cable, and orng/satellite. I bought a cable trace tool and found a bad connection on a short coax jumper. I'm too far away from OTA & I won't be able to tell if it's fixed until next trip first week of Dec.

Thanks again for the help.

[Gdetrailer]

Edd505 wrote:
I don't want to add to the confusion and to me it's obvious a couple here know electronics (brother did too, RIP N9NGI) I freely admit I am electronics dummy, and any help you can offer is appreciated, a simple drawings easier for me to follow.

On the OTA booster there are 3 connections 1 in 2 out, from there I split again off one leg. The boosters in the bedroom and that TV works great, farthest living area not so good. I have never used the basement factory connection for outside TV. If I under stand I need to get one splitter that will run coax to each TV. One of the posts talks about running RG6 from the antenna to the booster, worth tearing apart to change? This is my 3rd 5W and it's the worst on reception.

The answer is it depends.

IF you had easy access AND more than 10ft run then you might see some noticeable results in rewiring from RG59 to RG6.

In reality, trying to replace the wire from the antenna through the roof and through the wall is most likely not gonna happen unless you are willing to remove the paneling.

Mine, the wire from the antenna was run over to the wall and to get it to make the 90 degree turn at the wall it was put through holes drilled into the place where the ceiling an wall meets. The holes were sized that the RG59 just fit through. Then the coax was stapled to the wall studs.

Short runs of RG59 can be OK and sometimes you have no choice but to leave it as is.

Now for remote runs like from the front to the back, it CAN make a difference. Sometimes you can change the route basically abandoning the existing RG59. This can be often done inside just by following the cabinets, Basement (if you have one) and other "chase" areas used for plumbing and electrical.

In my case, there is cabinets from the front of my trailer all the way back to the rear bathroom on one side, makes for a simple and easy run.

If no cabinets to work with then you can run down through the floor and follow the trailer frame, wire tying where convenient then come back up where needed..

In my case I had to gut the trailer due to severe water damage and rewiring 12V, 120V systems and the antenna wiring made sense and was easy to do with no cabinets or paneling.

If you have a Wingard, you might want to check the wire that goes from the antenna head to the jack on the roof, this wire is typically RG59 and it does degrade and crack causing major signal loss. Replacing cracked coax can be helpful.

[wa8yxm]

rockhillmanor wrote:

I'm getting ready to add a real antenna to my winter house to replace the amplified indoor antenna.
Which btw is no slouch it does net me over 20 channels as is.

What brand outdoor antenna did you buy? I want the same one you have!!! :B

That depends a lot on what stations are around you.

In the old days, if you were watching say Channel 7, You were watching Channel 7.. But today.. Well if you are watching 7-N (1,2,3,Whatever) you might be watching most any broadcast channel (in one place I park it is indeed 7, in another 41, Just as examples) So you need to know the charrier or broadcast channel.. Your TV will tell you or any of the better antenna helper applications.

Back in the ANALOG days.. I put a Channel Master on top of a 100' Tower at my parent's house I forget if it was their Biggest or #2 on te list (think #2) We got very good reception,

Google "Union city, NI" and the map 9 Mile and Southfield Road, Southfield mi... We could see the tower at 9/Southfield from Union City Reliably.. Among other stations.

[ktmrfs]

More than one I've had bad coax. the quality stuff is good, but there is lots out there with BAD connector attachment. cable is good, connection is bad and I've measured 20db or more loss in a 20ft section of coax. replacing the connector(s) or new coax solved the problem.

On our trailer I got good over the air reception but terrible on the outside coax cable connection. turns out there was a 10ft section of lossy coax.

replaced that and everything was ok

[Edd505]

wa8yxm wrote:
Just now I have one station that won't come in on the remote TV, no matter what I do. (Not really a problem I just need to re-program a bit).

You say you only have TWO televisions. Get rid of that 2nd splitter (bypass it with a double female connector also called a barrel connector) and see if that helps Run one output from the wall-plate to the front one to the rear,

This is exactly what I have been thinking, I doubt I will ever use the outside TV connection. By eliminating that 3rd TV connection both TV's would be hooked to the booster out. If I did want the outside position I can connect directly to one of the two booster connections disconnecting one of the inside TV's.

Thanks for all the responses,

[rockhillmanor]

DutchmenSport wrote:
.....Not all splitters are created equal. When we dropped DirectTV and DishTV from the house and went back to over-the-air,

I installed an antenna on the roof of the house

.....

I finally went to Lowes Home Improvement and out of desperation got a different (10 way) splitter. And it worked! Every room in the house had the signal.

Mind you, in the house, I have no booster, and every television gets about 60 channels ... over the air.

So, splitters do make a big difference. I advise, just go straight to Lowe's and get one of theirs.

I'm getting ready to add a real antenna to my winter house to replace the amplified indoor antenna.
Which btw is no slouch it does net me over 20 channels as is.

What brand outdoor antenna did you buy? I want the same one you have!!! :B

[wa8yxm]

Just now I have one station that won't come in on the remote TV, no matter what I do. (Not really a problem I just need to re-program a bit).

You say you only have TWO televisions. Get rid of that 2nd splitter (bypass it with a double female connector also called a barrel connector) and see if that helps Run one output from the wall-plate to the front one to the rear,

[Tom_M1]

Finally, someone with some good advice. To add to Bill's comments, the typical wall plate can feed two TVs. One TV can go to the front connector and another can connect to the back side of the wall plate. Most likely the feed on the back side is going to a splitter that feeds the other two TVs. As stated, make sure all connections are tight and that the connectors are installed properly. Also, make sure that the coax cables are in good condition. No cracks or cuts.

Here's a link to a good article by Chris Bryant:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130814121735/http://blog.rv.net/2008/06/tech-tune-up-your-tv-antenna

[Bill_Satellite]

Edd505 wrote:
I don't want to add to the confusion and to me it's obvious a couple here know electronics (brother did too, RIP N9NGI) I freely admit I am electronics dummy, and any help you can offer is appreciated, a simple drawings easier for me to follow.

On the OTA booster there are 3 connections 1 in 2 out, from there I split again off one leg. The boosters in the bedroom and that TV works great, farthest living area not so good. I have never used the basement factory connection for outside TV. If I under stand I need to get one splitter that will run coax to each TV. One of the posts talks about running RG6 from the antenna to the booster, worth tearing apart to change? This is my 3rd 5W and it's the worst on reception.

So, on the back of the power supply wall plate the connections will be Cable In Ant In (roof top OTA) and TV out. Since you have more than 1 TV that TV out would need to go to one or more splitters to get to 3 TV's and it appears you have found at least one of the splitters. If that splitter only has 2 coax coming out (1 input, 2 outputs) then there is another splitter somewhere that sends a signal to the 3rd TV. You may be able to fix your problem by checking all connections and all the F-Connectors at each coax end to ensure everything is tight and there is enough of a center conductor wire to make a good connection. It should be almost reach the end of the screw cap of the F-connection. If all else fails I would look for a good OTA signal booster. You could install this near the TV with a weak signal and likely amp up the signal enough to get the solid picture there.

[Edd505]

I don't want to add to the confusion and to me it's obvious a couple here know electronics (brother did too, RIP N9NGI) I freely admit I am electronics dummy, and any help you can offer is appreciated, a simple drawings easier for me to follow.

On the OTA booster there are 3 connections 1 in 2 out, from there I split again off one leg. The boosters in the bedroom and that TV works great, farthest living area not so good. I have never used the basement factory connection for outside TV. If I under stand I need to get one splitter that will run coax to each TV. One of the posts talks about running RG6 from the antenna to the booster, worth tearing apart to change? This is my 3rd 5W and it's the worst on reception.

[Gdetrailer]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
It's always fun to watch 2 smarty pants arguing a point that no one understands and won't help answer the posters question.
Happy Thanksgiving. I hope the OP got to watch the parade!

Yeah, well your "smarty" answer does not help the OP in any way either..

My point is, SWR should have NEVER been mentioned, it has no business in this entire thread and it was brought up by someone who felt it would "contribute" but instead it MUDDIES the water with unneeded extra terminology..

I pitty the poor fool who thinks they will help there tiny little UNDERSIZED RV antenna by cutting the antenna length..

TV antennas are by design a WIDE BAND RECEIVING antenna and are not designed for low SWR, there is no way you could design any antenna which covers the entire TV band and have a 1:1.1 - 1:2 SWR match, just is not happening.

Yeah, I do have a Ham license, I also have a degree in electronic technologies, I have repaired thousands of TVs, stereos, Sat receivers, computers and much, much more electronic technologies over the years..

Built many of my own home brew Ham antennas, stacked and matched dual 13 element 440 Yagis was one of my favorites using 1/2" copper pipe and 10 gauge solid wire soldered to the pipe (even the driven element is soldered to the copper pipe, wrap that around your head on how that was done!).. Worked a fellow Ham simplex 30 miles away with 150 Milliwatts of power with that one on 440 mhz.

[Gdetrailer]

Edd505 wrote:
I sort of get what you are both saying, brother was avid HAM. I have 3 TV connections, bedroom, living, basement. That mean I have two splitters? I know where to find one. Then how do you know it's a good splitter vs cheap? Last is there a way to test them? That's my project in the next few days.

You can buy 2 way, 3 way, 4 way or more passive splitters.

You can "nest" splitters.. In other words take a two way then on one output put another 2 way.

The problem however is each time the signal is split you get massive losses (three DB is like cutting your signal in half so 3.5 DB is even a bit worse than half..

Two way splitters are 3.5 DB loss.

Nesting a pair of 2way gives you one port with 3.5 DB loss and two ports of 7 DB loss.

Three way splitters basically are the same as nesting two 2 way splitters with one port with 3.5 DB loss and two ports with 7 DB loss.

Simply put, in the digital age passive splitters will kill your signal enough that the RF noise surrounding your trailer can easily drown out the channels.

The base of ALL passive splitters is nothing more than 75 ohm 1/8 watt resistors.. Yep $.05 cent resistors, so whether you buy $1 splitter or a $100 splitter the heart of it is nothing more than $.05 resistors.

They are completely passive with no other electronic devices inside.

Sure, you could buy gold plated ones but in reality it won't fix the 3.5 DB loss of the resistors.

You don't NEED to buy expensive splitters, anything more than $2.00 is wasting money no matter what some of the supposed smart folks on this forum say (perhaps I can make them a deal on a certain bridge in New York?).

[Edd505]

I sort of get what you are both saying, brother was avid HAM. I have 3 TV connections, bedroom, living, basement. That mean I have two splitters? I know where to find one. Then how do you know it's a good splitter vs cheap? Last is there a way to test them? That's my project in the next few days.

[wa8yxm]

Gdetrailer wrote:

SWR affect on reception is so small of a problem it really does not affect reception.

You are a "Ham" and you should understand this.

As I said. I have seen the difference nearly Every day as I change from one band to another and re-tune the antenna.> When the SWR hits 1:1 (Matched) the received signal is much, much, much, stronger.

If The TRV signal is borderline, a 3:1 SWR or even a 2:1 can make the difference.. I also studied this stuff in college.