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ApexAZ's avatar
ApexAZ
Explorer
Jun 22, 2014

Contemplating a 5th Wheel

Hello all,

I am considering buying a 5th wheel sometime in the next year or two and was hoping I could get some advice on how to determine the right price.

I went to a local dealer (La Mesa RV) recently and asked about price and the salesman told me that they are primarily a high volume dealer, so they intentionally price the RV's low and there isn't a lot of room for negotiation. I've read from several sources that you should automatically take off a minimum of 20-25% from the price, but what I'm wondering is if this is the invoice price, or MSRP?

For instance, I was looking at a Heatland Sundance that had a declared MSRP of $57,300 and a list price of $39, 998, which is a discount of ~29% off MSRP, if I did my math right. Is it feasible to ask for another 20-25% off of $40,000?

Also, I'm sure you've all been asked this a thousand times, but I am looking at tow vehicles and have a couple questions about towing capacity.

The trailers I've been looking at are all under 15,000 gvwr, if not under 14k. and a dry hitch weight of around 2-3k lbs. Based on this info, I've been looking at GMC/Chevrolet 3500 HD 4x4 with a standard 6.5' bed in a SRW configuration. The questions I have are:

Does the hitch weight factor into the maximum payload weight? I assume so, but want to be sure.
Is there a way to calculate how much the hitch weight increases as you add cargo/fluids?
How much propane do people take and how much does it weigh when full?
How much weight should I expect in cargo for 1 week trips? I realize this varies greatly, but I'm thinking kitchen essentials, food, clothing, toiletries, etc. All the things we would need to vacation for a week.

The truck I'm looking at has the following specs:

GM 3500 4x4:
GCWR - 24500
GVWR - 11500
Payload - 4264
Max tow - 17100

I should be able to stay within these limits, but curious what other people think of these tow ratings? We won't be spending more than a week or two at a time in the trailer on our longest trips, so I can't imagine we'll be adding a significant amount of weight, but I'm really not sure. After adding water and propane, is it pretty easy to rack up 2,000 lbs of weight (assuming water/propane take up 1k which is conservative).

I am sure these questions have been asked, but I didn't have a lot of luck searching. Any advise you all can provide would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian
  • Redsky's avatar
    Redsky
    Explorer
    Jun 26, 2014
    If you boondock or go to campgrounds without hookups the limitation will be the fresh water and black water storage tanks. A 20# propane tank lasts us a month with it being used for cooking and heating and the fridge. More important is the capacity of the battery bank. I would want 400 AH of battery capacity.

    If you figure the maximum payload weight and multiply that by 4 you will have the maximum wet weight of the trailer to tow. Subtract 1000 lbs. to have the approximate dry weight of the trailer.

    Appreciate that the longer the trailer the fewer public campground spaces you will be able to fit into unless you relegate yourself to the RV trailer parks where overall length is usually not a problem. Big decrease in California if your trailer is longer than 28 feet and the shorter the better.

    If you get a gas powered truck then do get the 4.10 gears. They provide 25% greater towing capacity over 3.73 and 50% greater than 3.42 gears. Easiest way to improve overall performance when towing and also be able to accelerate better when merging into traffic.
  • ApexAZ's avatar
    ApexAZ
    Explorer
    Jun 23, 2014
    BB_TX wrote:
    Don't know what specific floorplan you are looking at, but here are some that Camping World has with their pricing.
    I think the grey number with the line thru it represents the supposed MSRP.


    Thank you, BB.

    Some of these are close enough that I think I can probably make a deal for the price I have in mind.

    I need to look at some other brands too. Cougars seem to be popular.
  • ApexAZ's avatar
    ApexAZ
    Explorer
    Jun 23, 2014

    A far bigger concern to me would be to make sure the truck can handle the weight. 15,000 pounds will have a pin weight of at least 3000 pounds plus the hitch at around 250 pounds. And on top of that, of course, is the weight of all the people, dogs, tools, and all the rest of the stuff in the truck. A one ton truck such as your are considering will be a good choice.


    This is precisely why I am intent on buying a 1 ton. 15k was the very upper limits of what I looked at. I would say the average gvwr of all the floorplans I looked at were around 13,500 with a dry hitch weight around 2100. The GMC has a payload capacity of 4250ish and I figure with a hitch that will leave me with 4k lbs. Most of the time it will be only my wife and I, but I also did the math for 4 passengers and should be ok. The extra payload capacity is the primary reason for going 1 ton.

    At the Ford dealer yesterday, the sales manager, who also happened to be a towing expert kept trying to convince me I'd be fine in a 3/4 ton, despite my rationale for needing the extra payload for the hitch weight.

    We plan to camp a lot with a week or two vacation each year, so we don't need a huge 5th wheel to live in. We're both in our mid 30's and fully engrossed in our careers, so I don't anticipate needing to upgrade to anything larger or more luxurious any time in the next 10 years. Because of this, I think we'll be just fine in a lighter 30-35 fiver. In fact it's entirely possible a fiver is too much, but I do want to be able to vacation the national parks and scenic parts of America in comfort.

    Anyone with a similar life style and needs decide they needed more 5th wheel after RVing for a bit?
  • jmtandem's avatar
    jmtandem
    Explorer II
    Jun 23, 2014
    So how much propane is really needed for a week? Two or three bbq propane tanks? Or do they come with their own propane tank?

    Don't worry about how much propane weighs. It is an insignificant amount compared to the entire weight of the fifth wheel. Go with full tanks.

    Will, this is good information, thank you. My hope is to try and get 20% below asking price (which is already well below their stated MSRP). Either way, I'm pretty firm in what I am willing to spend and if they can't do it then it will just mean we'll have to wait another year while we save more.

    See what the internet provides for the MSRP or what dealers are selling the coach for in other places. Check with other dealers in your area. The MSRP is a number that is often inflated by the dealer to allow customer to think they are getting a good deal. Do your due diligence on this. No need to wait another year just be a smart buyer. The coach will not be less expensive next year if you are intent on purchasing new. If new is too expensive now, just try to find one a year or two pre- owned. Your first coach is never your last. It is your 'learning curve' coach so purchasing pre- owned sometimes is a great idea. Save lots of depreciation and learn what you really want in your next coach.

    A far bigger concern to me would be to make sure the truck can handle the weight. 15,000 pounds will have a pin weight of at least 3000 pounds plus the hitch at around 250 pounds. And on top of that, of course, is the weight of all the people, dogs, tools, and all the rest of the stuff in the truck. A one ton truck such as your are considering will be a good choice.

    Thanks so much everyone for the responses!
  • ApexAZ's avatar
    ApexAZ
    Explorer
    Jun 23, 2014
    Thanks all.

    So how much propane is really needed for a week? Two or three bbq propane tanks? Or do they come with their own propane tank?

    Will, this is good information, thank you. My hope is to try and get 20% below asking price (which is already well below their stated MSRP). Either way, I'm pretty firm in what I am willing to spend and if they can't do it then it will just mean we'll have to wait another year while we save more.

    Thanks so much everyone for the responses!
  • Rancher_Will's avatar
    Rancher_Will
    Explorer
    Jun 22, 2014
    I am sure that many use a different approach but here is the way I have done when buying the five RVs we have owned.

    First I determine how much I can afford to pay, or am willing to pay. This is my absolute top budget price and I will not go one dollar above it. (I have always paid cash and paid for it on delivery.)

    Next my wife and I determine which RV (we always buy a 5th wheel) has the features, especially including the floor plan that suits our style of using it. We take our time looking as numerous different makes and models, with our requirments in mind. We select the floor plan based on our using style after considering the other features. The way we intend to use it is very important.

    When we determine which one is our first choice, with the ask price not over 20 percent higher than our budget price, I sit doen and go into hard core negotiation for the new one. I either get it at my best price, below my top price figure, or I walk and go to another dealer or we offer on our second choice.

    I have never paid above our preset budget price for each of the five RV's that we have owned. In fact I have always bought our RV at a somewhat lower figure than our preset top price.
  • jmtandem's avatar
    jmtandem
    Explorer II
    Jun 22, 2014
    Does the hitch weight factor into the maximum payload weight? I assume so, but want to be sure.

    Yes, the hitch, pin weight and all the other stuff and people in the truck are a deduct against available payload.


    Is there a way to calculate how much the hitch weight increases as you add cargo/fluids?

    Yes, load up the fifth with all your stuff, batteries, propane, water, etc. and take it to the scales and weight the fifth, pin, axles, etc.


    How much propane do people take and how much does it weigh when full?

    Generally most folks fill the propane tanks when leaving for a trip. Propane is about 4.1 pounds per gallon.


    How much weight should I expect in cargo for 1 week trips? I realize this varies greatly, but I'm thinking kitchen essentials, food, clothing, toiletries, etc. All the things we would need to vacation for a week.

    Calculate water at 8.3 pounds per gallon. Some folks will not carry full water while traveling, only enough to use the bathroom or other minimal usages. The rule of thumb is to figure on about 1000 pounds of stuff in the fifth. If you are under gross weight of the trailer and your truck can handle it then you should not have any issues with overloading.

  • Dick_B's avatar
    Dick_B
    Explorer
    Jun 22, 2014
    More important is whether or not the RV you purchase works for you in the future. If it doesn't no deal is a deal.
  • BB_TX's avatar
    BB_TX
    Nomad
    Jun 22, 2014
    Sale price should in the range of 30% off MSRP. Although stated MSRPs are some what questionable.

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