50 Amp Usage Question

[JimBollman]

I occasionally have friends visit and stay in their camper. I have installed a 35 amp RV box by the back driveway. I also have a 4 wire 20 amp 220 outlet by my carport for an emergency generator which also acts as two 110v circuits with an adapter which is how I normally use it.

I have never owned an RV with 50 amp service so the question is if you had the choice of plugging into 220v 20 amp or 110v 30 amp, which would better serve your needs? I plan to pick up an adapter for the 220v 20 amp if it would be better for a visiting RV if it would be used. I figure they would have an adapter for the 30 amp since it is a standard RV outlet.

[dedmiston]

It's just a whooooole lotta chest thumpin.

[Lynnmor]

There are a few higher end RVs with 240 volt dryers.

[time2roll]

dodge guy wrote:
This is an RV forum, not Home Repair .net..

If you re-read the OP it is actually a home repair question.

[Bobbo]

dodge guy wrote:

Bobbo wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

This is (almost) entirely wrong. It is not "a 240V outlet for RV use." It is a standard 4 pin 240v dryer/stove outlet that we just happen to be plugging an RV into.

Every 4 pin 240V outlet is "2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground." EVERY ONE. Whether it is powering an RV, a stove, a dryer, or anything else.

To say "{a}t no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that" is the only true statement in your quote. However, you don't realize that saying that you get 240V by installing a 240V breaker in the RV, you are admitting that the feed TO the RV is, indeed, 240V. The breaker feeding the pedestal IS a standard 240V breaker.

You will be correct if you say that the 50 amp outlet is a 120v/240v outlet but most (not all) RV's only utilize it as 2 separate 120v circuits.

You are apparently not understanding the difference between how the power is supplied, and how the power is utilized.

I think you are not understanding. We are talking RV’s here, not home 240V appliances.

No. We are not talking RV's here. We are talking outlets. It makes no difference, at all, what will be plugged into the outlet. What you plug in to the outlet determines how that outlet's power will be used. However, the outlet is still the same, regardless. It is 120v/240v.

dodge guy wrote:
It’s not 240 if you measure each leg to the Neutral! For the life of me I don’t understand how you guys can be so stubborn. An RV is 120V period, and that is how the RV is wired. Anyone that says they have a 240V RV is just a little off. :R I don’t care if the outlet adds up to 240V. This is an RV forum, not Home Repair .net.
I’m done wasting my time. You guys can give out false info all you want. I certainly feel sorry for the first person that wires up there RV outlet for 240V.

It is 240v if you measure L1 to L2. That is exactly the point. There is 240v available if the item plugged in requires it. It is what you plug in that determines whether it is used as a pair of 120v or a single 240v power source, but, either way, 240v is available. I agree that MOST rv's have no 240v appliances. Is your assertion that the outlet is not 240v valid for those RV's that DO have a 240v appliance?

Your statement:

dodge guy wrote:
An RV is 120V period, and that is how the RV is wired.

Shows that you don't understand the conversation. WE are talking about outlet wiring. YOU are talking about RV wiring. The two are completely different conversations.

dodge guy wrote:
For the life of me I don’t understand how you guys can be so stubborn.

Now, THIS is absolutely funny. WE are not the ones being stubborn. We are right. Do a little research. Look up NEMA 14-50R outlet wiring. Learn something.

[enblethen]

If you refer to the NEC article 551.46 (C) 4, you will find that a fifty ampere RV is 120/240 four wire. NEC is the National Electrical Code

[dodge_guy]

larry cad wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

Bobbo wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

This is (almost) entirely wrong. It is not "a 240V outlet for RV use." It is a standard 4 pin 240v dryer/stove outlet that we just happen to be plugging an RV into.

Every 4 pin 240V outlet is "2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground." EVERY ONE. Whether it is powering an RV, a stove, a dryer, or anything else.

To say "{a}t no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that" is the only true statement in your quote. However, you don't realize that saying that you get 240V by installing a 240V breaker in the RV, you are admitting that the feed TO the RV is, indeed, 240V. The breaker feeding the pedestal IS a standard 240V breaker.

You will be correct if you say that the 50 amp outlet is a 120v/240v outlet but most (not all) RV's only utilize it as 2 separate 120v circuits.

You are apparently not understanding the difference between how the power is supplied, and how the power is utilized.

I think you are not understanding. We are talking RV’s here, not home 240V appliances.

Give it up! You are wrong. The outlet doesn't know what is being plugged into it! There is 240v there! Get a meter and check it out! Stop making a fool of yourself by arguing with these people. It just makes them more determined to correct you. I've seen this argument 100 times on this forum. You can't win! Give it up.

It’s not 240 if you measure each leg to the Neutral! For the life of me I don’t understand how you guys can be so stubborn. An RV is 120V period, and that is how the RV is wired. Anyone that says they have a 240V RV is just a little off. :R I don’t care if the outlet adds up to 240V. This is an RV forum, not Home Repair .net.
I’m done wasting my time. You guys can give out false info all you want. I certainly feel sorry for the first person that wires up there RV outlet for 240V.

[larry_cad]

dodge guy wrote:

Bobbo wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

This is (almost) entirely wrong. It is not "a 240V outlet for RV use." It is a standard 4 pin 240v dryer/stove outlet that we just happen to be plugging an RV into.

Every 4 pin 240V outlet is "2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground." EVERY ONE. Whether it is powering an RV, a stove, a dryer, or anything else.

To say "{a}t no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that" is the only true statement in your quote. However, you don't realize that saying that you get 240V by installing a 240V breaker in the RV, you are admitting that the feed TO the RV is, indeed, 240V. The breaker feeding the pedestal IS a standard 240V breaker.

You will be correct if you say that the 50 amp outlet is a 120v/240v outlet but most (not all) RV's only utilize it as 2 separate 120v circuits.

You are apparently not understanding the difference between how the power is supplied, and how the power is utilized.

I think you are not understanding. We are talking RV’s here, not home 240V appliances.

Give it up! You are wrong. The outlet doesn't know what is being plugged into it! There is 240v there! Get a meter and check it out! Stop making a fool of yourself by arguing with these people. It just makes them more determined to correct you. I've seen this argument 100 times on this forum. You can't win! Give it up.

[time2roll]

dodge guy wrote:
I think you are not understanding. We are talking RV’s here, not home 240V appliances.

The 50 amp connector at every RV park is a common NEMA 14-50 that gives 240/120 volt service. This is the exact same common outlet installed in millions of homes to power electric ovens, stoves and ranges.

[dodge_guy]

Bobbo wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

This is (almost) entirely wrong. It is not "a 240V outlet for RV use." It is a standard 4 pin 240v dryer/stove outlet that we just happen to be plugging an RV into.

Every 4 pin 240V outlet is "2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground." EVERY ONE. Whether it is powering an RV, a stove, a dryer, or anything else.

To say "{a}t no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that" is the only true statement in your quote. However, you don't realize that saying that you get 240V by installing a 240V breaker in the RV, you are admitting that the feed TO the RV is, indeed, 240V. The breaker feeding the pedestal IS a standard 240V breaker.

You will be correct if you say that the 50 amp outlet is a 120v/240v outlet but most (not all) RV's only utilize it as 2 separate 120v circuits.

You are apparently not understanding the difference between how the power is supplied, and how the power is utilized.

I think you are not understanding. We are talking RV’s here, not home 240V appliances.

[Bobbo]

dodge guy wrote:
To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

This is (almost) entirely wrong. It is not "a 240V outlet for RV use." It is a standard 4 pin 240v dryer/stove outlet that we just happen to be plugging an RV into.

Every 4 pin 240V outlet is "2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground." EVERY ONE. Whether it is powering an RV, a stove, a dryer, or anything else.

To say "{a}t no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that" is the only true statement in your quote. However, you don't realize that saying that you get 240V by installing a 240V breaker in the RV, you are admitting that the feed TO the RV is, indeed, 240V. The breaker feeding the pedestal IS a standard 240V breaker.

You will be correct if you say that the 50 amp outlet is a 120v/240v outlet but most (not all) RV's only utilize it as 2 separate 120v circuits.

You are apparently not understanding the difference between how the power is supplied, and how the power is utilized.

[BB_TX]

dodge guy wrote:

ScottG wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

ScottG wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Well first off you can’t use a 220V circuit on a 50A RV!
Second higher amps is always the better way to go.
But since you’re wiring everything, why not just run a couple 50A RV services with a 30A RV outlet.

Every 50A RV has 240VAC coming into it but it's then separated into two 120VAC circuits.

Look at the wiring of a 50A RV outlet. It is not 240V! Now you can wire in 240 after the panel in the RV. But coming in, no it’s 2 120V 50A circuits. Just adding up the voltage does not make it 240!

I'm sorry but you just don't understand what this circuit is. It's simply a 240VAC range outlet. It does measure 240 across in your RV's panel and yes, adding up two 120VAC circuits that are on opposite sides of a split phase does give you 240V.
Maybe we're just getting stuck in semantics here..

To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

Semantics. Semantics.

If you measure with a volt meter across the two 120 vac hot legs at the RV outlet, you will indeed measure 240 vac.

And even though you will measure that same 240 vac at the breaker panel inside the RV, it will not supply 240 vac to anything inside the RV unless you install a double pole breaker for that purpose. And only then if your particular style breaker panel is configured to be able to do that. Not all are.

Call it a 120/240 vac outlet to be technically correct.

[dodge_guy]

ScottG wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

ScottG wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Well first off you can’t use a 220V circuit on a 50A RV!
Second higher amps is always the better way to go.
But since you’re wiring everything, why not just run a couple 50A RV services with a 30A RV outlet.

Every 50A RV has 240VAC coming into it but it's then separated into two 120VAC circuits.

Look at the wiring of a 50A RV outlet. It is not 240V! Now you can wire in 240 after the panel in the RV. But coming in, no it’s 2 120V 50A circuits. Just adding up the voltage does not make it 240!

I'm sorry but you just don't understand what this circuit is. It's simply a 240VAC range outlet. It does measure 240 across in your RV's panel and yes, adding up two 120VAC circuits that are on opposite sides of a split phase does give you 240V.
Maybe we're just getting stuck in semantics here..

To call it a 240V outlet for RV use is wrong. Someone may make a big mistake! There are 2 separate 120V legs, 1 Neutral and 1 ground. At no point do they make 240V unless you install that type of breaker in the panel and run 240 off of that.

[CA_Traveler]

Another problem with dual plug adapters is that due to the parallel neutal wires from the adapter to upstream of the plugs is that either neutral can be overloaded. Basically one of the neutrals can be carrying amps from both the other neutal exceeding the limit of it's related hot wire CB.

[older_fossil]

CA Traveler wrote:

Granted very few 50A RVs have 240V appliances but some do.

Our Allegro Bus is basically all electric (except the AquaHot on diesel). Our main induction cooktop needs 240V to work. When on a 30A service we break out a portable induction burner that runs on 120V. I've heard that sometimes rigs will have 240V clothes dryers. Our uses 120V, slower but gets the job done.

Art