My 35' pull trailer has a GVWR in excess of 10,000LB, so I have decided I want to go get my California Non-Commercial Class-A license (to add to my Class-C and Class-M). FYI my TV is a 2012 F-250 6.7L PSD, and I am well within specs on the TV for my TH.I was planning to go get the Class-C and Class-A handbooks at my DMV down the street (I saw the PDF's online and HTML, but I like to hold and flip pages, re-read, highlight, etc. and don't want to print on my printer). I was then planning to take the written test and get my permit. For taking the behind the wheel test, I have a close friend who has his commercial Class-A that can go along with me. I was thinking to make my life much easier (and much more likely to pass) I would rent a pull flatbed trailer with a 10,000+ GVWR, preferably short too. I just need to find a place in San Diego that rents these for non-commercial use.How does all this sound? Am I missing anything? Here's a question I had though that I didn't find any info on yet. Does this non-commercial license change the way that my points are calculated, punishment enforced, and publicly reported to insurance? Right now if I attend traffic school, the point is present, but it is non-chargeable (non-visible) to the insurance company and I don't see a raise in my rate. Does any of this process change for me?

the bear II wrote:I use a C4500 chevy as my tow vehicle. It is rated to tow more than the 15,000 lb 5th wheel I tow. CA. DMV considers it a commercial vehicle which means the registration fees are based upon load capacity. I'm guessing tickets would also be more expensive. I've had this combination since 2008 with no need or problems where a non-commercial class A license was needed.I haven't even considered getting one and don't seem to need one.I have heard stories of CHP pulling people over and asking them for their license. The fee is high and once you prove you don't have the license, you cannot drive on. You must then bring someone with a Class-A to drive your trailer out of there. I just prefer not to test the waters.It seems easy enough overall to get the license. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, why not get it?Sounds kind of fun!I heard stories out at Glammis that on heavy holiday weekends the CHP will have a stop where you pass through and they are inspecting tow vehicles for overloading, and also the trailer for overloading, and sometimes (not every time) asking for the correct license and then the ticket and the fact that your trailer is stuck way out there will suck.Why not just get it?

Does anyone know if California the only state that requires this? I wonder what would happen to an out-of-state person pulling a large FW that is in compliance with their own state's requirements?Jim

TucsonJim wrote:Does anyone know if California the only state that requires this? I wonder what would happen to an out-of-state person pulling a large FW that is in compliance with their own state's requirements?JimI read in other threads you'll be OK since your licensed under a diff state that I'm guessing doesn't have these requirements.

AMG1978 wrote: Here's a question I had though that I didn't find any info on yet. Does this non-commercial license change the way that my points are calculated, punishment enforced, and publicly reported to insurance? Right now if I attend traffic school, the point is present, but it is non-chargeable (non-visible) to the insurance company and I don't see a raise in my rate. Does any of this process change for me?No,those rules are only for Class A Commercial License. The reason is that a commercial license falls under the Federal rules,that points are twice for some infractions and the traffic school is not an option.Also the DUI is .04 even when in your own vehicle when you have a Commercial license,all under federal guidelines.These are the reasons that I surrendered my Commercial Class A license when I retired after having that license for more than 40 years.

IAMICHABOD wrote:AMG1978 wrote: Here's a question I had though that I didn't find any info on yet. Does this non-commercial license change the way that my points are calculated, punishment enforced, and publicly reported to insurance? Right now if I attend traffic school, the point is present, but it is non-chargeable (non-visible) to the insurance company and I don't see a raise in my rate. Does any of this process change for me?No,those rules are only for Class A Commercial License. The reason is that a commercial license falls under the Federal rules,that points are twice for some infractions and the traffic school is not an option.Also the DUI is .04 even when in your own vehicle when you have a Commercial license,all under federal guidelines.These are the reasons that I surrendered my Commercial Class A license when I retired after having that license for more than 40 years.Great info. So non commercial doesn't have the DUI difference or the traffic school difference?

California Non-Commercial Class-A Questions | Good Sam Community

Diesel_Camper
Explorer
Mar 21, 2018
Also, looks like your non-commercial vehicle that requires an endorsement or Class A or B (Commercial or Non) license is considered a "Commercial vehicle"; you can see the text of law makes no distinction if you're operating with a class c and 5th wheel endorsement or Class A or B no matter if commercial or non-commercial license.

California Vehicle Code 15210:
(b) (1) “Commercial motor vehicle” means any vehicle or combination of vehicles that requires a class A or class B license, or a class C license with an endorsement issued pursuant to paragraph (2), (3), (4), or (5) of subdivision (a) of Section 15278.
Diesel_Camper
Explorer
Mar 21, 2018
AMG1978 wrote:

Also the DUI is .04 even when in your own vehicle when you have a Commercial license,all under federal guidelines.

These are the reasons that I surrendered my Commercial Class A license when I retired after having that license for more than 40 years.

AMG1978 wrote:

Also the DUI is .04 even when in your own vehicle when you have a Commercial license,all under federal guidelines.

These are the reasons that I surrendered my Commercial Class A license when I retired after having that license for more than 40 years.

According to the text of law (vehicle Code 23152D) "(d)?It is unlawful for a person who has 0.04 percent or more, by weight, of alcohol in his or her blood to drive a commercial motor vehicle, as defined in Section 15210"

Per the text of law and several conversations with CHP officers, the .04 applies only when operating a vehicle that is considered commercial (which could include your non-commercial combination if a higher level of license is required). The CHP guys have said this is a very common misconception.
Lexx
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
Here's a screen capture of the California handbook that shows what you can tow with a class C license.

For example, my F450 has a GVW of 14k lbs. My fifth wheel has a UVW of 8895 lbs and a GVW of 10995.

Per the regs, I should be fine with a class C license because my fifth wheel is between 10k and 15k lbs, and my combined GVW of both vehicles (24,995) is under 26k lbs.
toolguy1964
Explorer
Mar 18, 2018
Make sure you bring someone that has a Class A or Non Commercial Class A with you when you take the driving test.
The DMV in my city didn't tell me that when I went to talk to them about getting my Non Commercial Class A. I went all the way to West Sacramento with my 43' Toy Hauler and F-450 the day of the driving test and was turned away.
Don't have the TH or the F-450 now. Downgraded to an F-250 with a 35' TT.
Good Luck to you.
AMG1978
Explorer
Sep 29, 2015
jmtandem wrote:
i am in the same boat as the OP. i was thinking about using a flat bed if i can find one to use, it was be alot easier then my big TH.
someone said that using a flat bed is not an RV so it would have to be commercial. its CA so everything is not always logical, but the non commercial is for a trailer exceeding 10,000 it does not say anything about it having to be an RV. so i don't get why a heavy duty flat bed would not work. my concern was when backing up, with my TH i am good withe the mirrors but with a smaller trailer or my boat i prefer to look over my right shoulder out the back window, the hand book does not say what way the DMV wants this done. keep us updated with what you do.

I would go to DMV with a flat bed or horse trailer as horse trailers also typically have a high GVWR for their size and see if the DMV cares. If not you are home free. If they say it has to be a travel trailer then come back next time with your trailer.

Yeah that would work if I could find a single heavy duty rental place that rents pull trailers beyond 9990lb gvwr. Looking still
jmtandem
Explorer II
Sep 29, 2015
i am in the same boat as the OP. i was thinking about using a flat bed if i can find one to use, it was be alot easier then my big TH.
someone said that using a flat bed is not an RV so it would have to be commercial. its CA so everything is not always logical, but the non commercial is for a trailer exceeding 10,000 it does not say anything about it having to be an RV. so i don't get why a heavy duty flat bed would not work. my concern was when backing up, with my TH i am good withe the mirrors but with a smaller trailer or my boat i prefer to look over my right shoulder out the back window, the hand book does not say what way the DMV wants this done. keep us updated with what you do.

I would go to DMV with a flat bed or horse trailer as horse trailers also typically have a high GVWR for their size and see if the DMV cares. If not you are home free. If they say it has to be a travel trailer then come back next time with your trailer.
jareddustin
Explorer
Sep 29, 2015
i am in the same boat as the OP. i was thinking about using a flat bed if i can find one to use, it was be alot easier then my big TH.
someone said that using a flat bed is not an RV so it would have to be commercial. its CA so everything is not always logical, but the non commercial is for a trailer exceeding 10,000 it does not say anything about it having to be an RV. so i don't get why a heavy duty flat bed would not work. my concern was when backing up, with my TH i am good withe the mirrors but with a smaller trailer or my boat i prefer to look over my right shoulder out the back window, the hand book does not say what way the DMV wants this done. keep us updated with what you do.
FrankoToo
Explorer II
Sep 29, 2015
FrankoToo wrote:
You do not mention what the gvw of the trailer actually is, only that it is greater than 10k. If it is 15k or under, you do not need a non commercial class A, only an endorsement on your C license which is a written test only.

Frank

My apologies on the above. I missed the fact the OP is pulling a TT, not a FW. This is straight from the DMV website.

A Noncommercial Class A license is required if you tow:

a travel trailer weighing over 10,000 lbs. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) which is not used for hire.
jmtandem
Explorer II
Sep 29, 2015
Check registration of the flatbed or horse trailer and it will be "permanent trailer identification" which makes it property carrying not recreational. PTI is $10 for 5 years. My 5ver reg renewal is $310 a year in CA.

I think the OP is looking for a trailer to take the driving test that is smaller than his fifth but heavier in gross then 10,000 pounds. I am not sure I can see DMV arguing that a horse trailer has to be commercial and can never be considered 'non commercial' since many that have horses are transporting them in a trailer in a purely recreational non commercial manner.

But, virtually all pickup trucks in California regardless of use or size are registered commercial for some reason so maybe horse trailers and flatbeds are not considered recreational to the DMV.
cmeade
Explorer
Sep 28, 2015
jmtandem wrote:
If a flatbed doesn't work you might rent a horse trailer that grosses over 10,000 pounds.
Check registration of the flatbed or horse trailer and it will be "permanent trailer identification" which makes it property carrying not recreational. PTI is $10 for 5 years. My 5ver reg renewal is $310 a year in CA.