Crooked dealer headed for jail

[earlvillestu]

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[winnietrey]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
My sympathy for the victims ends where their gullibility, stupidity and credulousness begins.

If even ONE of them had done the simple straight forward due diligence this kind of transaction deserves probably none of this would have happened.

I am sorry but I think the so-called "victims" are mostly victims of self inflicted harm.

The sentence is just as crazy. 7 years in jail. No way to pay back the money. And the court does have the ability to force him to pay. But the real way to get him to pay is bring a CIVIL case against him and take his house and car, 401k, insurance holdings etc. It can be done with the right lawyer.

I would not agree. One line from the story jumped out at me. "they had established a relationship with him and trusted him". Which is why he was able to keep it up for so long.

FTD you were in business a long time, as I have been. A lot of the stuff we know, we forgot even where and how we learned it. We just sort of know it inherently.

I would guess many of these folks have little if any business experience.
Red Flags that they ignored, we would be all over in a heartbeat. But remember that is because we have been there done that.

You and me, we get a BS excuse ( which we know from experience) we are all over it. Relationship or not Other folks not so much.

And even you, and I or any person, with lengthy experience, we are not invulnerable. If the shark is big enough, and clever enough, both of us still can be eaten.

[slickest1]

I'm in the throw him in jail camp. With a guy like that you will never see a dime.If he is out and even if he is under court supervision he will more than likely find another scam. Lock him up and know that he will learn what it is all about in his new environment.

[toedtoes]

WTP-GC wrote:
Folks threatening to commit suicide over being defrauded for $28K. What a bunch of ****.

No one threatened to commit suicide. The woman said that if her husband had had a gun, he likely would have committed suicide.

And while $28K may not be a lot of money for some, for others it's a lot of money. Many folks who sell their RVs on consignment are doing so because they are unable to continue RVing and/or need the money for other things.

As to all that being stupid, if you've never been in a situation like this it's very hard to understand. After fighting and fighting and fighting to resolve the problem, your brain stops seeing things in a normal light. You become unable to handle things that would normally be simple "get over and move on". The littlest things become overwhelming. And often, it results in not wanting to kill yourself, but just wanting to put an end to the stress and your brain doesn't connect the action with death. I never got it until I found myself there. Every day it just got deeper and deeper as I banged my head against a wall trying to get a resolution.

[toedtoes]

toedtoes wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
My sympathy for the victims ends where their gullibility, stupidity and credulousness begins.

If even ONE of them had done the simple straight forward due diligence this kind of transaction deserves probably none of this would have happened.

I am sorry but I think the so-called "victims" are mostly victims of self inflicted harm.

The sentence is just as crazy. 7 years in jail. No way to pay back the money. And the court does have the ability to force him to pay. But the real way to get him to pay is bring a CIVIL case against him and take his house and car, 401k, insurance holdings etc. It can be done with the right lawyer.

A victim isn't less a victim because they are stupid, ignorant, disagreeable, slutty, dirty, etc. There is a limit to the "buyer beware" standard and this guy went way beyond it. He defrauded people. He committed a crime. He pays for his crime - no excuses because he only defrauded stupid people.

As for his paying it back, let's look at the numbers from the article:

15 counts of fraud, so likely about 5-10 different customers.
Max money lost about $28,000. Figure low to be around $4,000.

That equates to a total of about $20,000 at a low point and $ 280,000 at a high point.

His house is worth $300,000 and there is "little equity" in it. That probably equates to about $30,000 in equity. Even if he sells it for over value, we're probably only looking at around $50,000 above what is owed.

His car is 16 years old. Probably only worth about $4,000.

So, at best he'd have around $54,000 to pay back all his debts. Plus there's the other business debts he may have that will also have to be paid back. Per the article, he said he was basically robbing Peter to pay Paul.

That's the obvious reason the judge sentenced him to jail - because he knew this guy can't pay back the money and won't be able to pay it back. These are most likely older customers who don't have 40 years to collect $1000 per year in garnishments from a minimum wage job. He's now a convicted felon - he's not going to get a good paying job somewhere else.

Personally, I'm glad to see a business owner go to jail for defrauding customers. I think it's become too common in this day and age and they just receive hand slaps.

[toedtoes]

duplicate post

[colliehauler]

DutchmenSport wrote:
In order to garnish wages, they have to have a bonified job. Then, unbelievable as it may sound, it's the victim's responsibility to ensure the criminals place of employment knows about the judgment. The victim never tells their employers about the garnishments or court settlements. That's when the court's intervene, which begins with the victim trying to figure out where the criminal is now employed. Wanna guess how difficult THAT is these days? It sucks for sure! And every court intervention costs the victim more money for filings, and court costs and such. After a while, it just isn't worth it any more.

The mechanic I use was given a bad check for 1200. The county attorney would not prosecute her because she said she canceled the check when in truth she did not have funds in the account. The law benefits criminals more then victim's, sad. Now the victim is out the 1200. plus the cost of filing the case.

[bobsallyh]

These RV predators are very prevalent in big winter snowbird areas, especially in the Southwest US. They take advantage of seniors in those areas. Quite a few disappear and law enforcement never finds them.

[DutchmenSport]

In order to garnish wages, they have to have a bonified job. Then, unbelievable as it may sound, it's the victim's responsibility to ensure the criminals place of employment knows about the judgment. The victim never tells their employers about the garnishments or court settlements. That's when the court's intervene, which begins with the victim trying to figure out where the criminal is now employed. Wanna guess how difficult THAT is these days? It sucks for sure! And every court intervention costs the victim more money for filings, and court costs and such. After a while, it just isn't worth it any more.

[WTP-GC]

missnmountains wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:
Lots of stupid people in that article. In fact, the only sensible person mentioned in that whole thing is the RV dealer's attorney. Pay them back after spending years in prison and living a court-supervised life...what kind of idiots are these people??? Folks threatening to commit suicide over being defrauded for $28K. What a bunch of ****. I hope the guy spends a minimal amount of time in prison and gets to the restitution efforts quickly. Who in the world would advocate for a lengthy prison sentence, all things considered??

Unfortunately, with that logic, they should let out people like Bernie Madoff so that he can figure out how to pay back 100's of millions.

Highly Unlikely.

Ken

Apples and oranges.
Bernie ruined lives on a massive scale. This guy defrauded people on a local level who were trying to fund a hobby. All crimes are subject to the degree which it was committed. That's why some murders get life and others get a few years.

[WTP-GC]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
But the real way to get him to pay is bring a CIVIL case against him and take his house and car, 401k, insurance holdings etc. It can be done with the right lawyer.

Exactly. Levy a civil judgement against him and everything he does for the rest of his life involving money will be subject to the terms of the judgement until the debt is satisfied. Wages can be garnished, tax refunds withheld, etc.

Locking the guy up is one of the worst things you can do. In there, he can't make restitution payments and will be a burden on all tax-payers. So those who are the victims of fraud are now subject to greater monetary injustice. What a great system!

And BTW, who in their right mind would be making payments on 2 vehicles/RV's that they don't have a title (or right to title) for? Who are they paying? And what legal reasoning compels them to make the payment? In the auto world, without a title nothing exists.

[missnmountains]

WTP-GC wrote:
Lots of stupid people in that article. In fact, the only sensible person mentioned in that whole thing is the RV dealer's attorney. Pay them back after spending years in prison and living a court-supervised life...what kind of idiots are these people??? Folks threatening to commit suicide over being defrauded for $28K. What a bunch of ****. I hope the guy spends a minimal amount of time in prison and gets to the restitution efforts quickly. Who in the world would advocate for a lengthy prison sentence, all things considered??

Unfortunately, with that logic, they should let out people like Bernie Madoff so that he can figure out how to pay back 100's of millions.

Highly Unlikely.

Ken

[missnmountains]

Wrong quote

[fulltimedaniel]

My sympathy for the victims ends where their gullibility, stupidity and credulousness begins.

If even ONE of them had done the simple straight forward due diligence this kind of transaction deserves probably none of this would have happened.

I am sorry but I think the so-called "victims" are mostly victims of self inflicted harm.

The sentence is just as crazy. 7 years in jail. No way to pay back the money. And the court does have the ability to force him to pay. But the real way to get him to pay is bring a CIVIL case against him and take his house and car, 401k, insurance holdings etc. It can be done with the right lawyer.

[riven1950]

Never know when someone might pay you. I filed a judgement on a tenant once through small claims court. Never expected payment. About 3 years later got a check in the mail. His grandmother left him a house and he had to pay the judgement in order to sell it.

[RGar974417]

This guy should be in jail.