Double Towing Length Laws

Wadcutter wrote:

Your attorney may argue it but it's not a winning argument. Sorry, what you think is the law isn't as you imagine. I'll venture an even bet my legal training and experience is more than what you just think you know about the law. If you went thru a red light because you couldn't stop then you weren't in control. Jake brake or not is totally immaterial.

No sir. I went thru the intersection on a YELLOW light. If I had been loaded like a normal freight truck, grossing less than 80,000 stopping would not been a issue. And if I had let the jake talk on the downhill, stopping would of been less of a issue.

To me, the legal gross is the max weight the state puts the scale under me, and I drive away without giving money to state or lawyer. In that area, 22,400 per axle. 4 axle truck pulling a 2 axle trailer, with the right tires, do the arithmetic.

If your total weight was only 13K then you were well within legal limit. Don't know what your plated weight was. That's just a tax for hauling that much weight.

13K? I think that is less than 130,000. MT, truck weighed 27,000. the trailer 8,600 lbs.

A 4 axle truck and only pulling a 2 axle trailer? That must be some truck with 4 axles and only a 2 axle trailer too.

Had more than a few trucks set up that way; Steering axle 20,000 rated with tires rated for 11,400 lbs each. A 22,000 lb lift axle. Then a 54,000 tandem (other trucks had smaller 46,000 rears, but when new this Pete was a oil field rigup before I bought it.) The home-built trailer had 2 axles rated at 24,000 each.

BTW, I taught traffic and truck law for a lot of years and enforced it. I was recognized by the IL Supreme Court as an expert witness in both. I know what is not a maybe. I didn't get my knowledge sitting around a campfire or listening to someone blow off on the internet about what they thought the law was about but clearly doesn't.

I have no doubt you know more about traffic law and Ill truck law. But I studied what I needed to know so I could set up my trucks/trailers to scale the most weight, be heavy duty enough to safely haul the weight as safe as possible.
That trailer was built to pull with a tandem Mack, long enough to gross 80 under bridge law, and haul near 80 when working in town. But another job was going where the contractor limited loads to 20 ton. Working that job with the Pete, leaving a third of truck unused.

fj12ryder wrote:

In Missouri, if the light is yellow when you enter the intersections you are good. "Sorry, what you think is the law isn't as you imagine." So maybe you're wrong this time. It happens all the time.

From MODOT: "A STEADY YELLOW LIGHT tells you the traffic signal is changing from green to red. Stop for a steady yellow light unless you are within the intersection or are so close that you cannot safely stop before entering the intersection."

Thank you.

As for driving, having control of my vehicle; Any time I'm coming up to a traffic light, that light is RED until the vehicle in front in any lane of me is in the intersection. If it is still green at that point, I decide if I'm close enough to get thru the intersection...

Wadcutter wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


Wrong? I'll give you a "Maybe", but will balk on the "absolutely". Bet if you check, you will find the yellow means I should stop if I can do so safely. Like I said that green was stale, I was dropping speed and gears as I approached until I got to the point my trailer would clear the intersection before cross traffic got the green. If the cop wanted to write me up, my lawyer would of of argued in front of judge. At that time I was packing that weight that route 5-6 times a day. I had control, I did not let anybody in the distance I needed to stop.
If it was not for the silly "no jake" law (that was overruled by state a few weeks later) I would of been there with cool brakes, and felt much better.

Your attorney may argue it but it's not a winning argument. Sorry, what you think is the law isn't as you imagine. I'll venture an even bet my legal training and experience is more than what you just think you know about the law. If you went thru a red light because you couldn't stop then you weren't in control. Jake brake or not is totally immaterial.

In Missouri, if the light is yellow when you enter the intersections you are good. "Sorry, what you think is the law isn't as you imagine." So maybe you're wrong this time. It happens all the time.

From MODOT: "A STEADY YELLOW LIGHT tells you the traffic signal is changing from green to red. Stop for a steady yellow light unless you are within the intersection or are so close that you cannot safely stop before entering the intersection."

JRscooby wrote:


Wrong? I'll give you a "Maybe", but will balk on the "absolutely". Bet if you check, you will find the yellow means I should stop if I can do so safely. Like I said that green was stale, I was dropping speed and gears as I approached until I got to the point my trailer would clear the intersection before cross traffic got the green. If the cop wanted to write me up, my lawyer would of of argued in front of judge. At that time I was packing that weight that route 5-6 times a day. I had control, I did not let anybody in the distance I needed to stop.
If it was not for the silly "no jake" law (that was overruled by state a few weeks later) I would of been there with cool brakes, and felt much better.

Your attorney may argue it but it's not a winning argument. Sorry, what you think is the law isn't as you imagine. I'll venture an even bet my legal training and experience is more than what you just think you know about the law. If you went thru a red light because you couldn't stop then you weren't in control. Jake brake or not is totally immaterial.

To me, the legal gross is the max weight the state puts the scale under me, and I drive away without giving money to state or lawyer. In that area, 22,400 per axle. 4 axle truck pulling a 2 axle trailer, with the right tires, do the arithmetic.

If your total weight was only 13K then you were well within legal limit. Don't know what your plated weight was. That's just a tax for hauling that much weight.
A 4 axle truck and only pulling a 2 axle trailer? That must be some truck with 4 axles and only a 2 axle trailer too.
Sorry, there's no maybe you might have been. If some other bozo had gone thru the red like you say you did and hit you then you'd be then one whining the other driver should be hung at dawn.
BTW, I taught traffic and truck law for a lot of years and enforced it. I was recognized by the IL Supreme Court as an expert witness in both. I know what is not a maybe. I didn't get my knowledge sitting around a campfire or listening to someone blow off on the internet about what they thought the law was about but clearly doesn't.

Wadcutter wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Often the right attitude can improve outcome; CB tells me LEO is at bottom of hill, so I use service instead of jake brake to hold speed down. Half mile later I'm slowed as I approach a stale light. Right at the wrong time, just as I step on the go, light turns yellow. With brakes already hot, can I get stopped, or just slowed enough to let car get in front of me? Pour power to it. HP comes up from behind to stop me. Now, I'm crowding my legal 130000 gross, and know a lot more about time/distance needed to stop than he does, but first thing I say to him is "Little late on that light huh?" as I hand out the folder with ins, reg and copy of DL. He took a few min to check all my lights, and let me go.

Were you in the wrong? Absolutely.
So many times I heard "It had just turned red and I couldn't stop." Yeah, tell that to the guy you just hit who had the green light. Had they been the one with the green light and hit they'd be screaming bloody murder wanting the other driver hauled to jail.

Wrong? I'll give you a "Maybe", but will balk on the "absolutely". Bet if you check, you will find the yellow means I should stop if I can do so safely. Like I said that green was stale, I was dropping speed and gears as I approached until I got to the point my trailer would clear the intersection before cross traffic got the green. If the cop wanted to write me up, my lawyer would of of argued in front of judge. At that time I was packing that weight that route 5-6 times a day. I had control, I did not let anybody in the distance I needed to stop.
If it was not for the silly "no jake" law (that was overruled by state a few weeks later) I would of been there with cool brakes, and felt much better.

Don't know what your "legal 13000 gross" means unless you mean your licensed gross. If so that's just a licensing tax. A tax on what you say you're going to haul.

To me, the legal gross is the max weight the state puts the scale under me, and I drive away without giving money to state or lawyer. In that area, 22,400 per axle. 4 axle truck pulling a 2 axle trailer, with the right tires, do the arithmetic.

JRscooby wrote:

Often the right attitude can improve outcome; CB tells me LEO is at bottom of hill, so I use service instead of jake brake to hold speed down. Half mile later I'm slowed as I approach a stale light. Right at the wrong time, just as I step on the go, light turns yellow. With brakes already hot, can I get stopped, or just slowed enough to let car get in front of me? Pour power to it. HP comes up from behind to stop me. Now, I'm crowding my legal 130000 gross, and know a lot more about time/distance needed to stop than he does, but first thing I say to him is "Little late on that light huh?" as I hand out the folder with ins, reg and copy of DL. He took a few min to check all my lights, and let me go.

Were you in the wrong? Absolutely.
So many times I heard "It had just turned red and I couldn't stop." Yeah, tell that to the guy you just hit who had the green light. Had they been the one with the green light and hit they'd be screaming bloody murder wanting the other driver hauled to jail.
It's the same as the guy who loses control on wet or icy roads. They think because the speed limit says 70 mph they can legally drive 70 mph in all weather and when they slide off the road they did nothing wrong. The same old story was "But was only going 55 and the speed limit is 70." Failure to maintain control. If you can't control your vehicle then you're placing all other drivers at risk.
Don't know what your "legal 13000 gross" means unless you mean your licensed gross. If so that's just a licensing tax. A tax on what you say you're going to haul.

Wadcutter wrote:

When someone gets stopped they all think the cop is unreasonable. Cops are there to enforce the law against the other guy, not the ones who think they should be allowed to do whatever they want.
Those were the ones who were always fun to write tickets to and let them tell it to the judge how 'unreasonable' they thought they were treated because they got caught violating the law. Pretty much explains how they were brought up by their mommy and her little precious.

Often the right attitude can improve outcome; CB tells me LEO is at bottom of hill, so I use service instead of jake brake to hold speed down. Half mile later I'm slowed as I approach a stale light. Right at the wrong time, just as I step on the go, light turns yellow. With brakes already hot, can I get stopped, or just slowed enough to let car get in front of me? Pour power to it. HP comes up from behind to stop me. Now, I'm crowding my legal 130000 gross, and know a lot more about time/distance needed to stop than he does, but first thing I say to him is "Little late on that light huh?" as I hand out the folder with ins, reg and copy of DL. He took a few min to check all my lights, and let me go.

pitch wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
I double tow a little over length and so far haven't been ticketed. When I'm double towing I'm usually not terribly far from home so I could drop the back trailer and come back for it in the event I get pulled over by an unreasonable law officer.

Unreasonable law officer hmm. If you are legal, you are legal, if not you are not. LE's job is to enforce the law,not to adjust it as the urge hits him!

When someone gets stopped they all think the cop is unreasonable. Cops are there to enforce the law against the other guy, not the ones who think they should be allowed to do whatever they want.
Those were the ones who were always fun to write tickets to and let them tell it to the judge how 'unreasonable' they thought they were treated because they got caught violating the law. Pretty much explains how they were brought up by their mommy and her little precious.

"LE's job is to enforce the law,not to adjust it as the urge hits him!"

Riiiiiiiiight.

4x4ord wrote:
I double tow a little over length and so far haven't been ticketed. When I'm double towing I'm usually not terribly far from home so I could drop the back trailer and come back for it in the event I get pulled over by an unreasonable law officer.

Unreasonable law officer hmm. If you are legal, you are legal, if not you are not. LE's job is to enforce the law,not to adjust it as the urge hits him!

I am right close to 70 feet with my DP , trailer toad and toyhauler. Toss like a dream on all but the worst roads