Finding out how much we can tow

[prestonbunch]

We have a Dutchman Kodiak bunkhouse travel trailer. It's poorly made and crumbling before our eyes, but that's another issue for another post.

We are looking to get a different RV and my hubby would like to go with a fifth-wheel this time. But we are getting conflicting information about what we can tow. It seems like even the dealers don't always know what they are talking about. The saleswoman I spoke with yesterday at a dealership told me to call back when I found out what I could tow. ??? I thought they'd be trained to help.

Anyway, our trailer right now is considerable size. It's a 300bhsl model, about 39 feet long with three slides. Hubby tows it with a Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab with no problem.

We were looking at a Sundance fifth-wheel with two slides. I believe it was 36 feet long. And the salesperson told us he didn't think we could tow it with our truck. He said we needed to find out the gear ratio of our truck for him to look it up. How do I find that out?

Any suggestions/advice/help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[JIMNLIN]

See, none of this makes ANY sense to me. How in the world is a layperson supposed to know what they can tow? It's frustrating that the dealers either don't know or won't tell you because they just want you to buy something.

Yeah lots of different numbers folks use to figure out how much weight their trucks can carry and how much weight it can pull. Much of that confusion comes from all the different numbers the truck makers throw around. GVWR/FAWR/RAWR/GCWR/CCC/payload sticker/brochure payloads/brochure tow ratings/tire load ratings/etc.

When pulling my RV's I tend to stay at or under my 2500 Dodge trucks 13350 lb tow rating as a max my truck can pull safely and last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

I also use my 2500 Dodge trucks 6000 RAWR as how much pin weight my truck can carry safely. With 250k miles on the odo the truck and myself has had no complaints.
I ignore other laypersons opinions on which numbers I should use. This makes it simple to me.

[blt2ski]

Reality is, the max you can tow will vary based on how you load it. PAYLOAD is the key here, not tow rating!

I take the max the truck can weigh, then take the base wt if I know that amount, add in people and other items to the base. This gives me a loaded without trailer number. I then subtract this number from the max the rig can weigh. This gives me a remaining payload, that I can use as hitch wt. From this number, I can divide by .10 up to .25, ie 10-25% of the trailer wt as hitch wt. This then gives me a real world max trailer I can tow.

My old rig as an example, weighed 6600 lbs. By the time I added a pipe/lumber rack, cross bed tool box, family of 6 as teens in the 1200-1300 lbs range, along with a canoe and assoc paddles etc. my truck weighed 8500-9000 lbs sitting there. WIth a gvwr from the manufacture of 9200 lbs. I had 200-700 lbs for hitch wt! or a 2000-7000 lb trailer if I used 10% for hitch wt. If I used 25%, then a whopping 800-2800 lbs of trailer!

I personally do not care about the gvwr that GM gave me, I was more worried about the axel wts, and my PAID for license which was 10K lbs. With my 6500-7000 lbs trailer hooked up with typically 700-750 lbs of hitch wt. I was under the paid for license, so legal. And I was under the Rear axel wt rating of 6100 lbs in the typically 5000-5500 lb range. I was also typically 200-300 lbs under the FA rating. And the axel rating on the trailer was under by 500-1000 lbs typically. Total for the truck was 9000-9500, generally speaking.

My actual total gcw was 14000-15000 lbs. I had no white knuckle issues etc, even tho my GM rated GCWR was 12500. One of the best tow rigs I have had frankly, still wish I had that truck! I had no issues towing up to 20K gcwr, and a 12K equipment trailer!

In the end, tow ratings and what you can tow, will probably never make sense, as the factors you have to add together, will make most folks go crazy. There is no one way to figure out what you can tow. You need to factor in many many numbers.

Marty

[prestonbunch]

rhagfo wrote:

keymastr wrote:
You cannot get the correct weight ratings for any truck from a chart. Each vehicle has a axle and tire loading sticker, usually on the drivers door sill but sometimes in the glove box or other location but it will have tire loads highlighted in yellow and will show all important weight limits for your particular vehicle as equipped.

I really hate to disagree with you on this, but as an Old school person, I find the VIN stricter far more informative. The only real somewhat valuable piece of information is the "Payload", but only as the truck sat when it came off the assembly line.
The VIN sticker has the four most important numbers.

#1. Stock tire size the ALL the other numbers are based on!

#2. RGAWR Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating. Max weight allowed on the rear axle.

#3. FGAWR Front Gross Axle Weight Rating. Max weight allowed on the front axle.

#4. GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. The maximum the TV should weigh.

True payload is the GVWR Minus current weight of the TV loaded as ready for camping.

On Edit: Depending the GVWR of your truck,and if it is a Cummins or Gas engine you likely be over your GVWR with the Cummins.

That said, I tow a 11,000# 5er that has a GVWR of 12,360#, YES OVER GVWR, but still have almost 700# of rear axle capacity. If your GVWR is 9,200# you will be over, if 10,000# you might be OK.

See, none of this makes ANY sense to me. How in the world is a layperson supposed to know what they can tow? It's frustrating that the dealers either don't know or won't tell you because they just want you to buy something.

[rhagfo]

keymastr wrote:
You cannot get the correct weight ratings for any truck from a chart. Each vehicle has a axle and tire loading sticker, usually on the drivers door sill but sometimes in the glove box or other location but it will have tire loads highlighted in yellow and will show all important weight limits for your particular vehicle as equipped.

I really hate to disagree with you on this, but as an Old school person, I find the VIN stricter far more informative. The only real somewhat valuable piece of information is the "Payload", but only as the truck sat when it came off the assembly line.
The VIN sticker has the four most important numbers.

#1. Stock tire size the ALL the other numbers are based on!

#2. RGAWR Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating. Max weight allowed on the rear axle.

#3. FGAWR Front Gross Axle Weight Rating. Max weight allowed on the front axle.

#4. GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. The maximum the TV should weigh.

True payload is the GVWR Minus current weight of the TV loaded as ready for camping.

On Edit: Depending the GVWR of your truck,and if it is a Cummins or Gas engine you likely be over your GVWR with the Cummins.

That said, I tow a 11,000# 5er that has a GVWR of 12,360#, YES OVER GVWR, but still have almost 700# of rear axle capacity. If your GVWR is 9,200# you will be over, if 10,000# you might be OK.

[prestonbunch]

keymastr wrote:
You cannot get the correct weight ratings for any truck from a chart. Each vehicle has a axle and tire loading sticker, usually on the drivers door sill but sometimes in the glove box or other location but it will have tire loads highlighted in yellow and will show all important weight limits for your particular vehicle as equipped.

Yes, three kids. Thank you for the info!

[wandering1]

prestonbunch wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

prestonbunch wrote:
The other one we were looking at was a Forest River Heritage Glen.

Length: 36'7"
Hitch weight: 1490
Dry Weight: 9545
GVWR: 11,510
Cargo capacity: 1906

I have a 2500 Dodge/Cummins and pull a 11200 lb 5th wheel trailer with two slides. Great combo.

Our 2500 Dodge trucks have a 6000 RAWR that carries the hitch load from a trailer.
Your Mega Cab and all the kids/other gear may have a 3000-3200 lb rear axle weight which leaves 2800-3000 lb for a payload.

A 11500 GVWR 5th wheel trailer can have a 2300 lb pin wight which can bring the trucks rear axle weight to approx 5500 lbs. Now add another 200 lbs for a hitch = 5700 lbs. You now have 300 lbs reserve before going over axle/tire load ratings.

The truck and this trailer make a good match.

Thank you for the input. This stuff is really confusing if you don't know what you're doing, which I don't! I just want to make sure we are (1) safe and (2) don't damage our vehicle by towing more than we can handle.

If you need definitions do a google or bing search on the term or acronym.

[wandering1]

As you have learned, the salesmen don't have a clue, they are interested in selling their product only. Find the 5th wheel you want, get the specs on the 5th wheel so you know the weights. Decide on the make truck you want and get the 5th wheel towing specs for the truck from the dealer or manufacturer. They do have truck towing specs. Read the truck tow specs and pick a truck that will handle the 5th wheel. Don't rely on personal opinions, get the facts. You are legally responsible for having an adequate tow vehicle.

[keymastr]

You cannot get the correct weight ratings for any truck from a chart. Each vehicle has a axle and tire loading sticker, usually on the drivers door sill but sometimes in the glove box or other location but it will have tire loads highlighted in yellow and will show all important weight limits for your particular vehicle as equipped.

[Bedlam]

There are many different ratings you should consider for towing:

1. The gross vehicle weight rating is the most the vehicle can weigh with people and gear in the truck and the fifth wheel or trailer attached to the truck.
2. The axle weight rating is the most weight that each axle can have loaded on it.
3. The gross combined weight rating is the most your entire combination should weigh.

These ratings are supplied by the manufacturer of the truck and can be determined by safety, marketing or durability (warranty) considerations. If your vehicle is modified and outside of warranty, you may find it is more capable by upgrading the weakest components.

I will assume you have children since you have a Mega Cab and bunk house. You could easily take up half your payload before hitching anything up. Your rear axle and wheels will typically handle about 3000 lbs without upgrades. If we take the worst case numbers, you can handle about 2000 lbs of pin weight when fully loaded. This would put you in to a 10,000 lb gross weight rated fifth wheel.

I think you can look at fifth wheels that are gross rated up to 12,500 lbs, but you may have to upgrade your tires or rear suspension to handle the additional rear axle weight. I would budget for these items if wanting anything heavier than 10,000 lbs but hold off spending that money until you get actual weights. You will safely be able haul it empty, so the question will be how much weight you add once you filled with people, supplies and water.

[poncho62]

Honest salesman?

Probably sells trucks too............lol

[prestonbunch]

JIMNLIN wrote:

prestonbunch wrote:
The other one we were looking at was a Forest River Heritage Glen.

Length: 36'7"
Hitch weight: 1490
Dry Weight: 9545
GVWR: 11,510
Cargo capacity: 1906

I have a 2500 Dodge/Cummins and pull a 11200 lb 5th wheel trailer with two slides. Great combo.

Our 2500 Dodge trucks have a 6000 RAWR that carries the hitch load from a trailer.
Your Mega Cab and all the kids/other gear may have a 3000-3200 lb rear axle weight which leaves 2800-3000 lb for a payload.

A 11500 GVWR 5th wheel trailer can have a 2300 lb pin wight which can bring the trucks rear axle weight to approx 5500 lbs. Now add another 200 lbs for a hitch = 5700 lbs. You now have 300 lbs reserve before going over axle/tire load ratings.

The truck and this trailer make a good match.

Thank you for the input. This stuff is really confusing if you don't know what you're doing, which I don't! I just want to make sure we are (1) safe and (2) don't damage our vehicle by towing more than we can handle.

[JIMNLIN]

prestonbunch wrote:
The other one we were looking at was a Forest River Heritage Glen.

Length: 36'7"
Hitch weight: 1490
Dry Weight: 9545
GVWR: 11,510
Cargo capacity: 1906

I have a 2500 Dodge/Cummins and pull a 11200 lb 5th wheel trailer with two slides. Great combo.

Our 2500 Dodge trucks have a 6000 RAWR that carries the hitch load from a trailer.
Your Mega Cab and all the kids/other gear may have a 3000-3200 lb rear axle weight which leaves 2800-3000 lb for a payload.

A 11500 GVWR 5th wheel trailer can have a 2300 lb pin wight which can bring the trucks rear axle weight to approx 5500 lbs. Now add another 200 lbs for a hitch = 5700 lbs. You now have 300 lbs reserve before going over axle/tire load ratings.

The truck and this trailer make a good match.

[prestonbunch]

downtheroad wrote:
Wow..a salesman who was honest and said that he didn't know. Usually they know one thing for sure, "You can tow that-no problem."

Anyway, make sure that you consider no only what you can tow but what your truck can carry...PAYLOAD when considering especially a 5th wheel is very if not more important...Also do not use "dry" unloaded numbers when doing your research.

Post your trucks payload and the weight of the trailer you are considering and you will get better advice/ opinions here on the forum.

Oh, we have already met that salesman before. When we first bought our trailer, hubby had a Nissan Titan that they assured us could tow it. Sure it could tow it. But not well. After it pushed us through a four-way intersection on the way home, we decided we needed a different tow vehicle.

[prestonbunch]

Found a chart that says the payload is 2090.