How to shift weight off front end

[ctabailey]

This weekend I ran the truck and TT over a CAT scale on the way home.
I only ran it across once, and kept the WDH engaged. Next time I'll run at least twice over the scale.

Unfortunately, I found the following weights:
5340 Steer Axle
3280 Drive Axle
8200 TT tandem
Gross: 16820

GAWR Frnt = 4800 - 5340 = (540) overloaded
GAWR RR = 6084 - 3280 = 2804 available

Gross combined rating for the truck is 16000 - 16820 = (820) overloaded

So, overall I need to find 820 pounds to remove from the camper and truck. I'm on it.

BUT - my big concern is shifted some weight off the steer axle. I hope I can simply drop a link or two on the WDH, and that will shift some weight to the rear axle.

[ctabailey]

Ahhhh.... I neglected the front axle.. here's the corrected spreadsheet:

40% of cargo & passengers 232
60% of cargo and passengers 348

Tare Front Axle 3740+232=3972 :Adjusted Front Axle
Tare Rear Axle 2860+348=3208 :Adjusted Rear Axle

Adjusted Tare Front Axle: 3972
Adjusted Tare Rear Axle: 3208
Total Adjusted Tare Truck: 3972 + 3208=7180

Front Axle without WDH 3540
Rear Axle Without WDH 4960
Total truck without WDH 4960+3540=8500

Approximate TW: 8500-7180=1320 :Approximate TW

Gross Combined Weight 16220
Total Adjusted Tare Truck: 7180
Trailer weight 16220-7180=9040
TW Percentage 1320/9040=14.6%

Thanks guys for checking the math!

I suddenly feel much better. Now, next time I'm near the scales, I'll do a third weigh, with out the trailer at all, and the hitch and bars in the truck.

[Need-A-Vacation]

TY Ron!!!

[Need-A-Vacation]

I have considered a tongue scale myself.

Other things on the "grocery list" as well that are a higher priority, so it is on the "back burner" currently.

[Ron_Gratz]

Need-A-Vacation wrote:
I came up with 1320lb tw based on the adjusted numbers.... About 14.6% tw. Hopefully someone will confirm (or correct! Lol) my math soon!!!

That's correct.

The indicated tongue weight based on the adjusted numbers is:

TW = (4960+3540) - (3972+3208) = 1320#

TW% = 100*1320/(16220-7180) = 14.6%

The best way to get an accurate estimate of tongue weight is to measure the difference in weight of TV with TT attached and no WD applied minus the weight of TV without TT attached.

For both weighings, the TV occupants and cargo must be the same and must be located in the same positions.
TV weight when unhitched must include the WDH and bars.

Ron

[ctabailey]

I'm pretty sure I've got a 1400 pound hitch head... but i'll admit I'm not positive on that OR the bars. I'll be checking into this first thing after work today.

I'm also considering calling my dealer to see if he has a hitch scale.

[Need-A-Vacation]

I came up with 1320lb tw based on the adjusted numbers.... About 14.6% tw. Hopefully someone will confirm (or correct! Lol) my math soon!!!

What size wd bars do you have? I went with 1500lb bars.

My trailer is actually a little lighter overall weight (just under 9klbs) , but I have 1400lb tw, about 15.8%.

[ctabailey]

OK, Here's my calculations:
Tare Front Axle 3740 + 232 = 3972 :Adjusted Front Axle
Tare Rear Axle 2860 + 348 = 3208 :Adjusted Rear Axle

Adjusted Tare Front Axle 3972
Adjusted Tare Rear Axle 3208

Front Axle without WDH 3540
Rear Axle Without WDH 4960

Approximate TW 4960 - 3208 = 1752 : Approximate TW

Gross Combined Weight 16220
Truck weight 3972 + 3208 = 7180
Trailer weight 16220 - 7180 = 9040
TW Percentage 1752 / 9040 = 19%

1700 pound TW unfortunately I think is over loading my Hitch Head, of 1400 max. I need to check the reese hitch that i've got.

[ctabailey]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the reply, and taking the time to help.

Added passengers and cargo in truck:
People 405
Dog 28
Bike 10
Trike 10
grill 8
tank 9
toys 15
rug 8
blocks 7
Hitch 80
Total: 580

Wheel base: 153 inches
40% of cargo = 232
60% of cargo = 348

(I need to check the post again)

[Ron_Gratz]

ctbailey wrote:
I don't think I've got enough information to make the pin weight calc, though.

Using the available data, we can get a good estimate of tongue weight if we know how much additional weight was added to the truck relative to the 07/01/2015 unhitched weights.
This weight would include all added passengers and cargo, additional fuel, and weight of the WDH plus bars.

For example, if we assume an added weight of 650# distributed 40% of front axle and 60% on rear, the adjusted unhitched axle loads would be 4000# on front and 3250# on rear.
The estimated tongue weight would be 1250#, and TT weight would be 8970# giving a TW% of 13.9%
The estimated load removed from the front axle, with TT attached and no WD applied, is 460# versus the measured 240# which was restored to the front axle via application of WD.

The estimate also could be improved if we knew the TV's wheelbase, distance from rear axle to ball, and distance from ball to midpoint between the TT's axles.

Ron

[ctabailey]

Cool. I'll try that the next time, I'm still real curious about my pin weight. As for pulling, very stable! No squirrelly ness at all. For the most part I lock out 6th gear, except for long down hill grades.

She'll need 4th gear occasionally on up grades, and of course when entering the highway I'll see 3500 rpm fairly frequently.

We had to maneuver it through the 'hood of Bridgeport, and in city pulling is OK. only once did I need to detour around a low overpass or super tight right hand turn.

You definitely "know" it's back there, but I'm good with that.

My biggest take home point: pulling through city stop and go, over super bumpy interstates is "severe" trailering, and my intuition tells me I would have destroyed a 1/2 ton suspension and drive train.

[Need-A-Vacation]

I weighed our set up on the way home yesterday. I just went inside, and told the attendant I needed to weigh 3 times and asked if I could pay for all when done. Just unhooked for the last weigh. While for some they would rather return at a later time, it doesn't take long to unhook, run across the scale, then while I am hooking back up my wife goes in and pays for the weigh slips.

Looks like you are set up pretty good! How does it pull?

[gmw_photos]

You can go over the scale the third time ( or as many times as you need to within 24 hours ) and simply tell them "re-weigh"....they will ask for the ticket number, and you will only pay the $2 for each re-weigh

[ctabailey]

Well, just to close the circuit on this thread... I have done some due diligence since my original post.

The tare weight of my truck, with just me in it: (weighed 7/1/2015)
Frnt = 3740 RR = 2860 Tare weight = 6600.

Today I re-weighed at the CAT scale loaded for camp: (weighed 7/26/2015)
WDH Engaged: Frnt = 3780 RR = 4620 Trailer Tandem = 7820 Gross Com 16220
WDH Disengaged: Frnt = 3540 RR = 4960 Trailer Tandem = 7720 Gross Com 16220

So - everyone who said I had parked the rear tires partially on the front and rear pad of the scale... Nailed it! Nice job.

I'm OK on my axle ratings for the truck, but I'm at 101% of my Gross Combined Rating.

I did cull out a bunch of stuff from the truck and trailer, the only thing left that can be tossed is the driver and passenger extra weight we carry around our guts.

For my analysis, It looks like I've done pretty good distributing the weight, and my coupled and WDH engaged front axle is only 40 pounds heavier with the trailer than an empty truck. all intensive purposes, my front axle weight equals the tare axle weight.

I don't think I've got enough information to make the pin weight calc, though.

I should have decoupled the trailer today, and run the truck, its passengers, and the gear in the bed over the scales. Maybe next time. I'm still getting the hang of the lingo, and the "etiquette" at a commercial truck stop.

Here's the process:
1. Drive onto the scale, hit the button, ask for a first weight. Give the attendant your license plate number.
2. Walk into the office, and pay $10.50 for your weight slip. Tell the attendant you're going around for a second weigh.
3. Change your setup, and run onto the scale & hit the call button.
4. Ask for a second weigh. NOT a "Second First-Weigh." Give the attendant your first weigh slip-number.
5. Walk into the office, pay $2.

What I should have done was unhook the camper, and go over the scale a third time and ask for another "First Weigh." That would have cost me another $10.50

But... by that time the wifey, kids, and dog were all giving me the stink eye.

[BarneyS]

Also, take an umbrella or long stick next time to push the button! 🙂
Barney