Los Angeles law against sleeping in cars unconstitutional

Which article?

After reading this article, it would seem the laws against sleeping in an RV are unconstitutional. This will affect many cities that prohibit sleeping in a business parking lot. WalMart may soon be an option.

Don't jump so fast. First, the statue in question is considered "vaguely written". If a statute is written clearly and concisely, it could easily pass the litmus test of legality. Secondly, WalMart is a private business. If a particular WalMart says no, it could very well mean no because the parking lot is also private. Most decisions like this only pertain to public ways. Lastly, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has a tendency to make decisions that are quickly overturned by higher courts.

Wow... this could have far-reaching implications. Quoting from the cited article,

"The court said the law was unconstitutional because its ambiguous wording does not make clear what conduct would constitute a violation and "criminalizes innocent behavior." "

I can see how they might rewrite the law to remove the 'ambiguous wording'. But the part about "criminalizing innocent behavior"??? Those are interesting words for a legal nit-picker. They just might be grounds for challenging every municipal, state, and federal park's rules about 'park closes at dark'.

Heck, that decision might even over-rule things like the Blue Ridge Parkway's rules about car & RV sleeping in overlooks. Yeah, that's probably stretching it too far....

Jim, "Worrying works! 90% of what I worry about never happens."

Crowe wrote:
After reading this article, it would seem the laws against sleeping in an RV are unconstitutional. This will affect many cities that prohibit sleeping in a business parking lot. WalMart may soon be an option.

Don't jump so fast. First, the statue in question is considered "vaguely written". If a statute is written clearly and concisely, it could easily pass the litmus test of legality. Secondly, WalMart is a private business. If a particular WalMart says no, it could very well mean no because the parking lot is also private. Most decisions like this only pertain to public ways. Lastly, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has a tendency to make decisions that are quickly overturned by higher courts.

yep, especially about decisions being overturned.
bumpy

This reminds me of the Ohio laws. It is against the law for me to go to sleep in my motor home on any state lands including rest areas as it is considered camping. If I am in a car or tractor trailer that is fine I can sleep undisturbed. Just RV's are prohibited except in designated camping areas. I found this out at 1:30 AM when a State trooper knocked on my door to tell me I had to move as no camping was allowed. The cars and trucks were not disturbed. Trooper was nice and told me it was a state law and he had to enforce it.
I had just pulled in to sleep not cooking, chairs or other camping accoutrements just sleeping as I was tired.

darsben wrote:
This reminds me of the Ohio laws. It is against the law for me to go to sleep in my motor home on any state lands including rest areas as it is considered camping. If I am in a car or tractor trailer that is fine I can sleep undisturbed. Just RV's are prohibited except in designated camping areas. I found this out at 1:30 AM when a State trooper knocked on my door to tell me I had to move as no camping was allowed. The cars and trucks were not disturbed. Trooper was nice and told me it was a state law and he had to enforce it.
I had just pulled in to sleep not cooking, chairs or other camping accoutrements just sleeping as I was tired.

a reason to buy a TT or 5er. if that knock occurs, just move to the TV. :) no longer camping.
bumpy

It seems to me the issue is better address through parking restrictions. Such as vehicle dimensions, length of time parked, etc. That is if the goal is to keep RVs from tying up parking in certain neighborhoods.

Sleeping opens up can of worms. Some people may find themselves too tired to drive. Forcing one to move on when tired isn't the best policy unless other priorities are more urgent. Sleeping in general is one of the most benign activities a human can engage in. The issues are more a problem with the parked vehicle which should be addressed in other ways.

The court said people can sleep in their RV but didn't address normal parking laws. What about a no parking law with a sign that states: No Parking
8:00AM-5:00PM
1:00AM-3:00AM

The 8-5 is normal traffic times and the 1-3 is when the street sweeper does his thing.

As stated before, the reason the ordinance was overturned was because it's poorly written and very vague. Coastal areas in So Cal experienced a surge in homeless people living in RVs when the economy soured and many people lost their jobs and homes.

Venice Beach in Los Angeles was particularly hit hard when many RV owners set up permanent residence on public streets. You have to keep in mind that these people are not recreational RVers, they are down-and-out people with mostly old and rundown RVs. Complaints from local residents varied from RV dwellers dumping their tanks on the streets to taking up the few parking spots that were available.

Some municipalities have dealt with this problem by banning overnight parking on city streets completely or by targeting oversized vehicles by restricting length, width and height that practically eliminate every type of RV and commercial trucks.

Here's an article from the L.A. Times:

U.S. appeals court overturns L.A. ban on homeless living in vehicles